An idea to avoid/ease down future OH YOU COPIED ME drama
February 20, 2014 - 7:17pm — AliceV
So, I propably step into a wasp nest with this topic now, but ANYHOW I will try a rational approach to this topic. I would be greatfuly if you would read everything carefully before you post or flame. Really, so much could be avoided by close reading.
I am also aware that I am not the greatest one with words, especially not with the topic(s) i am about to mention. I try my best but I am human and on top of it, no native speaker.
First of a few 'rules' for posting.
It is so sad that this even needs to be put down here but seeng earlier 'discussions' here.
However.
- If you do not agree with this topic, I am totally fine with this. But there is no need to insult me or others for their opinions, for who they are, or for what they have done in the past. in short, dont do not throw poo at others to 'prove' your point. We are people. Not apes.
- I also dont want to see any 'ololololo gifs' or memes here not one. Don't behave like a disrespectful three year old. I am sure you are able to put your concern (or joy) into mature words.
- it would be awesome if no one would hide behind 'trollaccounts' here if they have to say something negative. Of course i know about the certain 'preasure' some people feel here when wording negative thoughts but seriously... is that what the oh so 'peaceful' and 'open' community has become?
I'm trying a mature approach to this whole topic and it would be great if this would be apreciated somehow. I will not put up with any kindergarten-style flamewar or ganging up on members. If any of this happens i will delete this whole thing and everyone of you can have a nice day and will never hear anything like this from me again.
So much the 'formal' part.
The Base
Before you read on, I am not an law expert. I only refere to the things that I learned in university now during the past year. If I put some things wrong sorry. It's not about the law itself here anyways it is about the principle of it. But you will see that later.
As a future designer you'll be tought the very basics of copyright law. Of course, you need to know how to avoid traps and how and when you need to stand up for your own rights
In Germany those laws have, among other things, so called 'Geschmacksmuster', translation 'aesthetic models'.
Those models can be applied to 2D and 3D designs, it is a collection of features that make a design a 'design', make it unique, and therefore protected by law.
This usually applies in industrial design right.
Quote:
. An industrial design consists of the creation of a shape, configuration or composition of pattern or color, or combination of pattern and color in three dimensional form containing aesthetic value.
An industrial design can be a two- or three-dimensional pattern used to produce a product, industrial commodity or handicraft.
There are limits on this law. Not everything that is designed can be protected, when the features are by far too common.
Lets say you make a bottle for a beer, that looks like any other beerbottle, but it has a blue band around it. That is not enough yet to make it a 'protect worthy' design.
But, lets say your beer-brand is dedicted to individual fairytale creatures. You have a pegasus beer with wings, a unicorn beer with a horn and a dragonbeer with scales on the glass.
With those unique features it suddenly becomes 'protect worthy'. Put a patent on it and no one except you is allowed to produce beerbottles with horns, wings and scales.
If you want to read further into the topic, here are the Wiki-pages
Design Patent
Industrial Design Rights
Community design (the european system)
The Point of this
...is the definition of 'what makes a design a design'.
An example to illustrate what I want to say.
Jack. (to make it clear thats MY char. no using of other names or chars here, no pointing fingers.)
If i would need to lable his 'design patern' i would list the following things.
- his eyes (black sclera, white iris)
- glasgow grin (maybe together with his two scars)
- the goggles (which are not in this picture yet)
- areonaut-tail (aka buttfloof)
- the dot marks on his shoulders
- the three streaks in his hair.
I could go more into detail now listing his unique face features what would all together 'make' his face, but.... thats too much detail for the moment.
All those things together pretty much 'make him'.
I 'can't' list the human face, the color, the buttstripes, the feathers and his missing antlers/ the normal deer antlers he has when hes in rage mode. Those are all common things. There are many human faced white deer on the site... and so on.
So, by mentally and rationally... checking off this list i can decide if i see a copy of him or not. And if i should take action or not.
White deerface with buttstripes, 'his' eyes and an aeronaut tail? - well they share features but hey, the deerface is far from immitating any patterns here.
Humanfaced white deer with 'his' eyes? - nope, still no reason to blast off.
White deerface with glasgow grin, three streaks in his mane, aeronaut tail, buttstripes, dots on his shoulders and goggles? - uuh... pretty close to a deer version of him... i should ask the artist if that is coincidence...
A red Humanfaced deer with goggles and a glasgow-smile? - hey they like goggles n jokermouths like me.
Very similar human face, white hair with three streaks and same haircut, glasgow grin, 'his eyes' but with red irises, blue fur with same markings, buttfloof and overall covered in scars? - yeaaa I dont believe in coinidence if it looks like my char violated with the paintbucket tool. I defenetely ask them about it.
.... and so on.
See what I mean? It kind of... 'prioritizes' the danger of a copy. And how justified it is to blast off about a thing.
How it can help with drama in the future
I have the idea that this could put an end to 'nitpicking' (as this term was so commonly used the past days) on other ones designs.
But before that it can mostly be a help to yourself.
My suggestion would be:
Take a rational look on your character design. What and which combinations are the really unique features on him/her/it. Be reasonable with this. 'deerfaced' or 'zombieantlered' isnt a thing that can be 'protected' (if we apply the law terms here again). 'Has a skullface' either.
But certain features on these things can. A deerface with three stacked mouths is something 'uncommon'. A skullshape that doesnt represent any living creature is, too. It is very, even.
Question yourself where you got the shapes/features from. If they are very basic, taken from the tef pelts, chances are high others will come up with similar patterns (to once again take recent events as a reference). If that is the case, is it really a feature that can be 'protected'?
Maybe not a stand alone... but as soon as they come together with other patterns...?
Put 'priority-combinations' for yourself like 'if these things come together i will contact the artist if they took my char as a reference or not'
This list could be put on characters bios as well, so people are 'warned' beforehand to overthink their designs. Wven better would be, to put it on a google document or similar with a 'proven' date or something so it would 'fix' the list to an extend and prevent people from accusing you of using random measurements just to push your opinion through.
So next time you smell a copy, step back from the pc for five minutes, drink a tea or something, calm down and then pull out your patternlist, take a rational look at it, compare the 'copy' to the patterns you made up for yourself.
Maybe suddenly some magic happens... first look is a copy, but closer look reveals only one or two patterns together with a common feature? Well maybe just a bad coincidence, but no reason to pull of a whole shitstorm.
On the other case it can help you to 'justify' your accusions, if you are able to actually list points that had been worked out even berfore the copy had poped up.
Maybe it is also possible (if this community is mature enough for this) to put all those pattern lists on a blog and let other people 'doublecheck' it, pointing out 'too common things'. To give yourself security for it, and help you decide.
So yea....
I... Kinda ran out of words now HA. Hell I typed a whole lot, more than I have here the past year.
Now once again I ask you to be repectful enough and not tear everything appart. Its only a suggetion i am not ordering anything here.
Maybe you have an even better idea, or something that can improve the whole thing I DONT KNOW.
This is just an idea from my side. Tell me what you think.
But PLEASE don't nail me to any facts. I don't say in this 'IT IS LIKE THIS' i say 'it COULD, MAYBE, UNDER CIRCUMSTANCES be handled like this.'
Yes. Thanks for actual reading before commenting. I trust in you guys.
((Oh and before anyone beats me for 'eeeh, you didn't post on your main account eitheeer' - yes but for that i posted on my original account, that is now used for 'community purposes'. Bam.))
ALSO... sorry for typos and mistakes, I didn't proofread. If anything makes absolutely no sense, tell me and i try to re-word it.
yep. Now im done, yes.
eeeh if you have read it so
to spare you the re-reading....
Ahhh so much amen to this. I
Again, -claps- this post is great and needed.
I think that is a wonderful
Like, ok bad example, but Neri. I would be upset if someone did a blue and green solid swirl tummy with shimmer. I would NOT be upset if someone did solid blue, solid green, a green on blue pattern, or a blue on green pattern. I also wouldn't mind people taking the shimmer 'cause....hey..it's pretty! As long as it's not blue-green swirl with shimmer, any combo of those or any other colors in the same way, are ok with me.
I like to think of them as species or breeds. Sure, take some of this and that, which seem to be common, and throw a little of this and that in it to make it your's. Why not? As long as it's not an exact take, I don't see a problem in common markings being used.
White-tailed deer DO have white around the eyes, just like the Orca mask. I'm not going to be upset at someone for having white or any other color around the eyes. Same with splatters. I've seen several character with splatters, but most of them have it covering only this part of the deer or maybe the other part. Maybe all over. The rump and flanks are a common spot because you see that in horses sometimes. So I wouldn't be upset for others having splatter either, in whatever color they choose, however fine or bold they make it, be they perfect circles or more abstract. It's common.
Now like, say, Lats'Vel. He's a boar. Is he allowed to be the only boar? No. His blue and white pelt is a fairly common design too. What makes him HIM is the combination he used with the yellow in it. The fine yellow hairs in his tail and mohawk. If you see other boars around, you know who is who because only Lats'Vel has that combination.
Many make the Dot D pelt's tummy solid, because they don't like or want the pattern from the set. They don't want to copy the set. Same with putting more blue on it than there really is. I love blue and, frankly, hate green. But since I DIDN'T want it to look like herla, I swirld the green in with the blue and didn't outline it and made her hooves green instead of the blue I wanted, to AVOID the copy thing. Made my own combo of common things based off what I like and what I was aiming for. Also we are limited to patterns with artistic ability. Some people aren't as creative as others to come up with unique designs that don't have some similarity to something we've seen, and in those cases the more plain and basic markings are more common as well.
Thank you for this. I would
I would also like to add that it can extend to personalities, but that would probably be a whole 'nother ordeal. Your idea of a 'pattern' would apply amazingly to that too.
I don't get it. All deer
(LOL joking, of course. That sounds so deerracist. XD)
Even if someone looks similar (not impossible even in real life), everybody has personality and story that is unique and originals :3
Yes, of course the whole
We all have basic personality patters, that we share with others, but only together with uniqe traits, influence of past life and other things it makes that 'mental fingerprint' that is you. Same goes for chars.
Its especially difficult when a character is still developing.
And in my opinion... every character is always developing.
That might be true but that does not make art/design theft legit. Similarities, fine... but too many, up to outright copying. Not fine. No matter what a hellish different character it is supposed to be.
Not talking about 'character stealing' here, talk about copyrigh / art theft.
BIG IMPORTANT EDIT I FORGOT
@Junalia, PLEASE i do not want any mentioning names here, yes? This here is not for pointing fingers, it should be an approach for the future. Not bashing on the past. We had enough of that
THIS GOES FOR EVERYONE. Also for those who haven't posted yet.
APPROACH FOR THE FUTURE, NO BASHING ON PAST EVENTS.
It seriously can't be stressed enough, can it?
I wasn't pointing fingers
yes, in lack of any better
If you want i can change the colors to neon pink and yellow, it would still illustrate be the example....
PLUS I didn't mention any names. Nowhere.
you mentioned Jack, and I
wait a second, I didnt even
'Question yourself where you got the shapes/features from. If they are very basic, taken from the tef pelts, chances are high others will come up with similar patterns (to once again take recent events as a reference)'
this is all and my only reference. nothing more.
I neither said names, NOR did a detailed discription of what actually happened. so hah
Tired brain already forgot what i wrote. Blah.
ALSO i am not accusing you of anything, nor judgeing you for anything. NOT mentioned your character once. I simply told you to not use names nor to continue to bash on dead horses. Thats all. ^^
And with 'that's all' i will drop this topic now. I think the point got clear now.
Jun, I think maybe what Alice
Stuff like this is like
So, I stick to something preeeetttty basic; if it looks about eighty or ninety percent like something that's mine, then I actually might bother to say something. Anything below that I disregard. Coincidences do happen, and stuff will always be repeated. Originality doesn't exist. If I made something, you guarantee it's been created before either exactly or in another form. Goes for everyone if they create something.
I don't care all that much at this point now when I see blatant design theft, be it something of mine or someone else's. I know who the original owner is of said ripped-off character or...yea. You can rip something off, but it would never really compare to the original. That's all that really matters, I guess? At least that's what methinks.
I worded this so badly, LOL.
@Jala Quote:So, I stick to
yuuus that is basically what i try to say... but...
i have the feeling that sometimes some people lack the 'ability of measurement' especially in an emotionally loaded topic like that. so i put it into.... a few more words and examples.
I am guilty of that too and have done my fair trade of wrong decisions and leash outs in the past as well (as everyone.)... but since those lessons in copyright law (who had been the most boring hours in my whole life, even outdoing math) i overthought most things... and now try to handle things differently. Dunnoooo i thought it maaaaybe could help others as well with the same struggle.
aaaas i mentioned several times now, no ruling, just an idea.
ah and yes its prancing on nails ...
but i usually wear military boots. *badum tsh*
edit:
I keep forgetting to write down things maaan.
even if its 'just a rip of that nerver will be the original' it still hurts to see someone 'just take' something you under circumstances put year on to archive. Plus, balant copies are still theft in my book. Especially when they where done fully aware...eh... want to say 'not by coincidence'.
I think i will skip answering and posting on tomorrow, my brain isn't fresh enough anymore to go on handling that topic (and english. argh.). Let's see how it developes further here.
(the ammount of edits i used for this post is rediculous.)
Tracking. I like that you
I also want to give you a high five for talking about that checklist system. It makes lots of sense as a system for determining similarity and in fact it is so simple and efficient that I wonder if people have overlooked it in the past.
I've also got a little anecdote to add to illustrate that accidents of design do happen and that there's at least one cool solution: A few years ago I was playing a game with a friend and we independently designed characters for it. When we showed each other the characters they were pretty much identical. Both assassins (we were so edgy!) with very similar clothes and nearly identical skills. Rather than argue over it and one of us change, we decided to play them both as twins, and it was awesome.
I'm surprised that more people in this game don't take the "They look alike! Maybe they are related! Let's roleplay and have them be buddies and run around the forest together!" approach when encountering designs that are similar to theirs. I haven't met any deer where the player's design looked like my design, but I have seen deer with similar sets and I always get super happy and excited at the sight.
Tracking this. Thank you for
This thread deserves like...a
Also, like AlisonRobin, I totally give you a thumbs up for the checklist system, and I had very similar thoughts about the similar-character design thing. Someone on DA and I did something like that with Fan Characters of the Japanese cartoon, Ginga Densetsu Weed. We both had Koga dogs (a type of ninja in the show) and they were both the same breed with similar markings and slightly-similar colors. But we did not attack the other for it; but we both actually got excited about it and made it so both of our FCs were team-mates in the same pack and had them be buddies. Of coarse though, the characters had their 'unique' characteristics and totally different personality patterns. But as they were based off of the same character in the show plus were based on the same show in general, they of coarse had their similarities.
Not saying that people HAVE to get excited or happy when they see someone with a design somewhat similar to theirs, but I believe exploding and going ape over it is a totally different road that should be avoided.
So that aside, a big amen to this entire blog and all of its points made. I think these things you pointed out should be taken into more consideration by everyone. We are so very thankful to you for this.