~

Definitely agree with the judge issue, a lot seem inactive and just sit around even when a fight is going on. However..


Sorry, I don't really agree with this. If that's how a character perceives the rut, then they should be allowed to play as they wish. Being in the rut doesn't mean your character goes OOC. If there's a competitor or challenger who refuses to hit girls, then I suppose they'll have to accept getting beat up by one and losing. And the judges should recognize this, too. I don't think it's plausible to completely eliminate the gender roles, because a lot of people like to play that way.

I've had a few people coming to me with their characters not being treated true to their class because of their sex.

They should ask the players they have concerns with! Most of us are adults here, a simple explanation couldn't hurt We have our contact info on the Rut page for a reason, right? If you got a problem or question, contact the player and ask! Nicely. That way Vee can enjoy the rut too!

Something that I've noticed is that out of everyone who signed up to the rut this year, only a handful have been active in the forest. I feel that this is mostly due to the connection issues everyone has been having. For example I Haven't seen many challengers around in comparison to the amount who's signed up.

It was mentioned somewhere that the competitor's were teaming up, so there would be two males to a harem. Not sure if anyone had a problem with this but I think it might be due to the fact that there are sometimes too many competitors to judges (which may link to the connection issue), or as mentioned already, the judges sit around a lot and don't even watch the fights sometimes, so the males tend to linger around.

SO BASICALLY what I'm asking is if the rut will be extended at all due to the fact that so many players can't seem to connect to enjoy the rut? Or is it not worth it?

@ Jala
Yeah I do understand that, many characters aren't as comfortable as others with running around and sitting in circles of strangers. It's stressful to some I'd imagine.
But I more meant if a character that is well known, and has been here for years and is looks totally bad ass is up against a fairly newer character, who has an average design and not many know about him, the popular one is more likely to win even if they were evenly stacked power wise. [I must admit i do this sometimes too, if I see a characters who's very popular I want my characters to interact with them because wow they are so cool] then that leaves the other guy at a disadvantage because no one knows him and he ain't as pretty.
That's kinda what I meant.

And yes, our version is more for fun but the actual real rut is for breeding, so a feral character from an area where this happens naturally in their former environment are probably going to use this as such. And then if another character catches wind of the smells and junk they'll be like OH breeding cool yeah. Some characters aren't effected by this at all of course.

The trick seems like it would be to redefine the purpose of the rut for players and characters so that it wouldn't have to be a gendeered event. Players know that anyone can enter, players want everyone to have a fair chance, but characters are gonna have different perspectives on this.

Y'all do a great job of running it on the comm site but I've been wondering how characters get the heads up that it's gonna happen. La had to have someone tell her it was the rut, she thought people were just getting mad at each other and everyone else was just hanging out having fun.

So my suggestion would be to have a few volunteer characters who have a grasp of the rut run around to biographies and talk through things IC with characters that players have said their characters will be fighting/competing. It would be more work, but the end benefit would be always wonderful conversations / networking and maybe a few characters can get some new perspectives. Even if they don't end up agreeing with the philosophy of the rut, I've always found it fun to play characters when they're hearing someone else's opinion.

Volunteer: Hey, heard you were gonna be competing in the rut this year, we're just running around doing some checking and making sure everyone's interested and all that.
Competitor: You betcha.
Volunteer: Awesome, good to know. Just remember that it's everyone's game for fun and it's not just about getting laid, 'kay?
Competitor: Wait, what?
Volunteer: Yeah, we're doing this for fun. It gets imbalanced and is way less fun when we worry about who has what role so we took that out. This isn't about reproduction.
Competitor: No, I just want the booty.
[complicated philosophical dialog commences]

It’d be great if the judges were a bit more active! I can’t say much though because I get guilty of the lazy-mode too. Plop my deer down, draw a little. We try to be active and judgy though but I think a lot of it is also circumstances. Someone could be busy, or tired. But the competitors/challengers have been very active so I think the judges could try too!
Standing on the sidelines is actually, sometimes for me at least, a way to check the group over too. What’s the competitor doing? Is that a group I find worth joining? Sometimes my judge will simply stand on a distance to check for a while before joining in. When I see others do it, I try to invite them over to show them it’s a welcome group. I’ve personally not seen judges waiting to be herded, but I haven’t been in every group either.

It gets really hard for a challenger to impress a judge behind a competitors back if there are two or more competitors on one group. In past years I had the idea challengers teamed up on one competitor, one getting their attention and the other sneaking in to the judges. Now I get the idea there’s two competitors circling the group, and the challengers are often on their own. I don’t know how true that is though, and yesterday my challenger got chased off by two other challengers which I thought was really great. So maybe it’s fine, but I’ve seen it happen a few times. I’m not sure if teaming up for competitors should be discouraged or not, because it can be pretty funny and the groups grow really big because of it. Which attracts chaos: chaos is fun. But yeah, throwing it out there.

Sexism is a very interesting point, because if you put your deer in a certain category, you do that because you want the other rutters to treat them that way. It’s not about being a boy or a girl, it’s about how you want to play in the event, and how you want to be treated/responded to. I also have the idea some characters will simply know a gender/sex even if the players try to make it really clear on a bio this is something said character hides. I do get that people want to stay IC and have their character behave how they should, but people should make sure that’s not because they read a bio but because it makes sense in-game. But if people experience that their character is not taken seriously in their role because of their sex and/or gender, I think they should try and contact the offending player. Talk it over. But yeah, you put your character in a certain role because you want to be treated that way. I wasn’t happy last year when I had my female in a competitor position, and someone privately told someone else my doe couldn’t win “because she is female.”

I think popular is a very mean word, and I don’t necessarily think it’s bad that a player who has been around for a long time has also been seen more/is more easily recognized. It’s not really about design, but about a pictogram you’ve seen a lot. People you know for –sure- are in the rut. I myself try to make sure not to bother anyone who isn’t, so I check the map a lot/check the blog a lot. If I already know someone’s in the rut, because I’ve seen them around actively, that makes it easier on me. But I’ve been meeting a lot of new faces actually! People who I’ve never seen before. And as far as I know from people around me, so have others. I actually kind of think it’s funny during the rut everyone approaches groups on purpose, but when it’s over people will go back to thinking groups want to be alone/are roleplaying/are exclusive. Me included of course, but it’s good to actually realize groups are fun.

I kind of too think it’s odd a lot, and I mean A LOT of players still make this to be breeding season. I understand it’s a little flirty as a game, but so many people feel the need to put “not interested in mating” or “interested in mating” in association with the rut on their bio, that I think this image has not been shed in any way. I understand the rut is based on a real-life event involving mating season, but if you truly want this rut to not be about that, then it needs to be disassociated from mating. And have the mating part be part of people their own personal rut. I know a few characters who rut for longer and have this on their bio. That’s not associated with the event that takes place in a certain timeframe. I do think people should be able to have their characters rut, but maybe not have the mating part associated with the event directly? Not sure how that’d work realistically, but I don’t know if male/female roles can be completely dissolved with the event still being associated with reproduction? Maybe I’m thinking too simple though.
Also to make sure: I don’t think there’s a problem with people wanting their character to reproduce during their rut, or with the rut being associated with it, but if that’s not what the event is about then that should maybe have more accent? Not sure. Again, throwing it out there. Maybe I completely misunderstood too and the rut being associated with mating is not an image that you want to shed.
(shit got rambly)

Gonna have to disagree with some of these comments.

I think we should just let things stay IC and characters staying true to themselves?

If a character wants to breed, let them breed. If your character doesn't, your character doesn't have to breed. If you and your char find joy in just hanging out with other deer, go for it! If your deer wants to harass the competitors to try to please the judges, go for it! If your character wants to have no part in the rut, go for it!

I mean the Rut IS about breeding in real life, and some characters go by that fact regardless of this little event which is called THE RUT. If you want to have a party with deer wresting, might want to rename this event then. But my point is, characters will do how the characters are meant to. If its chilling with friends or spreading genes, I think we should all be glad its all IC and not OOC. ^_^;

I'm gunna jump in here because I think its getting sort of shamey here. Its good the rut is more about making friends this year than mating, but those who are using it like that should not be shamed for doing so as long as they're not being obnoxious about it???

Everyone is having fun doing what they are doing, I'm having fun that my character is meeting a lot of new people while he wanders around looking for chances to and people to mate with, and as long as players use the OOC knowledge to look on peoples bios and see the part that says "Is open for mating" or "Is using the rut as a chance to make friends, uninterested in mating" then its fine?

Neither of my boys would harrass a character into fighting, being herded or mating without that players consent, whether it be written on the bio or what class they're in accepting it, or such as skype conversations where they have chance to say "nah ___ just wants to say hello!" and i'd alter my characters reaction accordingly and I hope everyone else signed up to the rut would to

And I'm honestly having fun watching the hormonal competitors duke it out over judges, whatever their motive for doing so, since if it becomes too much of a "big meet and greet" whats the point of fighting anyway, whats the point of holding onto a group? Whats the point of judging others or trying to impress others if its essentially a social get together.

Let people have their fun as long as it doesn't hurt or affect others fun and stop peeing on the parade of people who want to use it differently 8/

Nah Mis wouldn't say angry, just passionate

(My comment wasn't directed at you mis, you posted after mine technically but the thread loaded up slowly ;;

And Idk it did tick me off a little because all of this scoffing at each other about what the rut should be about is causing more upset than accidentally confusing a character as a 'breeder' instead of a 'friender' in game and that's whats bothering me.)

I love you guys.

Even for characters that would reproduce this time of year, I think that 99% of players play intelligent characters that are aware of themselves, their emotions, and others around them. Just like (adult) humans aren't slaves to our hormones, I can't see any other intelligent beings getting that way. In-character, it would seem reasonable to me that characters would be able to talk and communicate back and forth how they feel and what they want to get out of this.

As long as we think about this as an event run by players instead of characters, we're removing character agency from the situation and shooting ourselves in the foot for all issues involving character communication and problems.

To be very honest, Jezara has not seen many fights and in the only one she did see, she watched for a while and walked off. I'd like to see more conflict around, especially if there are two harems in close vicinity. Likewise, I'll try and be more actively involved.

bumping this because


this got ignored because all the commotion
I think it's pretty important, so
extension discussion pls

Okay. The Reproduction in the rut.
I don't care if your characters have fawns as a result of the rut, or maybe I do because I like to see the pretty designs that come out of it. So if your characters are seeking to create a family, go ahead! It's not our place to decide if you can or can't do.
The only thing is that family creation is now independently planned from the rut. It's up to you as players to organize and prepare for your characters' babies.

What I wanted to discuss was the sexism, and how I'd like Competitors, Challengers, and Judges to all have an equal chance no matter their gender. And we discussed this well I think! If a Challenger or Competitor chooses not to take a female seriously, then it should be perceived as a surrender and judged more fairly by the Judges. (Judges should try not to judge too much on who can or cant give them babies the whole rut, a little bit is fine, just not the entirety of the rut please, that's not what it's about, no offense intended! So far I've not seen none of that.).


As for the Extension...
It's complicated. For the participants who have been active, the Rut may have actually been going on too long already. But for those who can't get in, I wholeheartedly understand why this is something you guys would want.
HOWEVER...
How can we guarantee an extension will get you guys ingame? We could extend it for a week, but what if the server issues don't resolve by then?
It's a really difficult situation...


Sorry if this post came across as blunt/rude or something, just woke up and my heads not with it yet ahaha. I have no malicious intentions with what I've said!
Please lets keep this post from exploding again...

Ah that is a good point we don't know if it will resolve it... but then we do have more time to find out. If not the rut will probably end on it's own or keep going with players who haven't been active because of their schedule.

If it has they can always stay in non-rutting zones? Or if they really want to be done they can just remove their names from the list.
Maybe give it a few extra days to see if the server calmed down and if it didn't, end it then?

I just wanted to say something about this. Perhaps you did not mean it in this way, or perhaps different wording could be used, but after reading that I feel that you're assuming the worst in most stags that feel this way? Yes, there might be some that turn down a fight with a doe because they don't take them seriously, but I think for most stags there is a better reason why they wouldn't.

Some stags come from the human realm, and depending on the era, or how they were raised, or whatever, they were told not to hit girls.

Perhaps some stag experienced a female family member that was abused, and vowed never to hurt a doe like he saw.

Maybe some just don't like hurting does or stags just so they can get good points from the Judges.

And maybe some stags don't want to fight another doe in front of potential mates because those potential mates may feel that does shouldn't be fought, and will think he's a wife beater or whatever, even though he's not.

I guess what I'm saying is that I didn't see what you said as fair to the stags who are Competitors or Challengers. But then again, you probably didn't mean it like that. -SOBS-

Most of these are terrible ideas for IC reasons in my own opinion, and I suggest leaving the Rut as it is- it was going great until people got uppy about the fact that others use it for things besides the 'popular' goal of making ~friends~. What harm does that do? And anyway, it's sorta lulled out, why bother getting in a tiff about it when it's essentially finished? You have a whole year to think about it for the next one, figure things out for next round. Of course there's probably improvements that can be made, but damn. Chill.

As Jacklo said,

Quote:

Its good the rut is more about making friends this year than mating, but those who are using it like that should not be shamed for doing so as long as they're not being obnoxious about it?

And adding on, just let people do whatever the Hell they want- it's a game they should play at their leisure, regardless of if they're in an event or not.

I know you guys are striving for something completely different but I have to agree with Pandora. I wouldn't mind toning down my character just a bit for the event but if I join in I will be in character. I really don't understand what you're striving for?

Do you want it to be an OOC event? Why not call it a community hang out and not a rut and we can have the rut along beside it for people who wish to be in character, have in character actions, and react how they wish without being ridiculed. I'm not saying anyone is ridiculing anyone that is. Everyone is being rather nice and I'm honestly surprised.

Usually everyone just explodes and goes out to nail everyone's head on a stake. Bravo TEFc.



And we also need this just in case.

Just wanna add in here that I've noticed a huge drop in rut activity too. I think the last brawl I saw was maybe last weekend?

And then Helel and I had a run in with a random, persistant angry stag at the ruins a few days ago too. I had a dumb and didnt screenshot them so I didn't go and do anything about it/let it slide.

^ Yeeeah on that. Just popping in to say....why are people getting upset about.....no one getting that angry? This seems civil to me.

I don't think an extension will hurt if enough people are having connection issues. Personally, my game is connecting the quickest it ever has for the past two or so months. It's a shame if enough people are missing out.

On the argument about breeding and how the rut should be played...uhh...let each individual play it how they want? I personally think the rut is more fun if it's viewed as a semi-realistic thing and there is actual breeding and whatnot because it just...makes things more interesting and more competitive. No reason to get rid of that?

Hmm.
I have never seen any character whos looking to reproduce harass those who aren't unless they spoke with the player. I have a character looking to breed but i would ask the player far in advance if they wanted anything to happen, and I know all the players with characters like this would. None of these characters will sexually assault others since its against the rules and everyone obeys that.
So why is it weird that they are looking for reproduction at the time of year when many species of deer are looking for reproduction?
Like any others have said can't we just allow everyone to play how they want, and have fun, just cause they want to breed doesn't mean they won't make friends either.
As for changing the rut to exclude certain characters because of how they act or make it completely OOC... is completely changing the event all together. I like it how it is, personally.

I appreciate the rut for what it is, when it isn't a popularity contest. But I still agree that perhaps the reproductive point is a little excessive..? You can do whatever you want I guess, I don't really care. You can have your character reproduce if that's what they'd do. But I sort of think it should be unrelated to the rut event itself and instead the character should possibly just do it in their own IC time period. In any event, there are many species of deer that rut outside of this time; deer in the southern hemisphere rut in February through April on occasion, and there are deer even in the northern hemisphere that just don't rut during the time that the TEF Community rut takes place. So that's something to consider.

And the TEFc Rut is a community event for socialising and playing games. Is reproduction really necessary for fun, even if it's in character? I mean, you can do what you want and I won't judge, you can have your character reproduce or not reproduce if that fits your fancy, but I'm just thinking that it shouldn't be the norm. People shouldn't feel the need to say that their character does not want to reproduce.

Additionally, spars really should not cause any kind of damage to combatants other than bruises and scrapes, a concussion at the very worst. If your character is trying to kill other characters during the rut, they should absolutely not participate even if that's IC behaviour. Just because it's 'IC' does not automatically make it acceptable behaviour for a mass community event. And on that note, even characters that are sexist due to the time period they came from or for whatever other reason 'will not hit a girl' really should just... I don't know. You can avoid fighting does all you want but as Vee said, I think this should count as a surrender, and if it's a competitor that owns a herd, he should let the doe have control of the herd as he refused to fight her and that's effectively a forfeit. Of course, the judges can decide to follow him anyway, and I guess that's fine. Feels sort of unfair to the challenging doe because she was basically just discriminated against. But I don't really know if this has actually happened yet. Ryff is a competitor and has not encountered it, but I chalk that up to her being largely androgynous. Bleh. Rambling.


Yeah, basically this.

Like I said, you can pretty much do whatever you want with your character and I'm not a rut organiser nor am I here to police people. Just speculating and suggesting. It's just important to recognise that some characters are not appropriate for some situations.

I feel like you may have misinterpreted elements of what was said, but I could be wrong about that as well. I don't think anyone's upset about reproduction happening and I don't think anyone's upset about in-character play.

The rugby analogy was meant to compare a human situation to a possible character situation, an attempt to put on someone else's shoes... It's conceivable to me that there may exist characters participating in the rut who are uncomfortable getting physically close to characters who are in heat. But there might be none--I don't know because I don't play a character who cares.

It struck me that that possible discomfort could facilitate a change in the nature of The Rut from the character side. It's just as conceivable that a character looking to reproduce could be aggravated and exasperated by non-sexual participants and could look to convince them out of the competition because of their rival perspective. It would all depend on how they felt about it, and I'm sure there would be a whole spectrum of emotions.

IC, La would think the name for The Rut would still be appropriate for these games even if every character decided they wouldn't use it as a method to select a mate. I think she'd get the joke, that idea of appropriating an element of animal desire into an organized sport that people play for different reasons.

OOC, I see the current scenario similarly to the relationship that humans have with all kinds of hobbies and recreational activities--people do social things just to have fun or for the sake of the thing itself or to test themselves, and a subset of people do those things with the additional hope of running into someone to fall in love with. In the real world we don't shun those folks looking for love so I don't see a reason to here, but at the same time we don't let the entire activity revolve around that romantic theme for every participant (which is not to say that's what has happened here).