Something to consider... (All About Expression)

November 25, 2012 - 7:27pm — cicadia

Someone brought to my attention that...

Expressions. Expressions are being made where...physically...they can't be shown.
As always, I put more thought than necessary into this...and came up with a few things that some people may want to keep in mind, for believability's sake.

-When you wear a mask...the point is that your face is covered, most of the time. We have several masks in the forest that leave the mouth uncovered. But we also have several that do not.

-Deer have only lower incisors. There are no front teeth on the top of their mouths- just bone and hard gums. Think about the kinds of expressions are possible with that...grinning isn't exactly a pretty thing, is it? There also aren't as many muscles (or useable muscles) in a deer's face. They communicate with ears, tails, and body language in general. Granted, we have talking deer in the forest. Maybe expressions are possible. However, keep in mind that if it's realism you're aiming for, human expression isn't going to happen. That's a primate thing.

-Skulls are BONE. Skulls do not move, aside from the standard up-down jaw hinge swing. A skulled character, mask or face, can not grin (unless maybe you're talking about the forever skull-grin they wear). They can't smile. They can't frown, or wiggle their eyebrows, give flirty looks, or look sad. Maybe that's a reason -to be- sad. I feel if more people took this into account, there'd be a lot fewer characters with skulls running around...there's really a very limited range of expression if you wear a skull, unless your voice is just really that emotional.

I might also mention that TRUE human faces cannot look out of a skullmask with both eyes at the same time. Humans have forward facing omnivore/carnivore eyes, while deer have sideways facing herbivore eyes. This means a human faced deer wearing a skull mask could only look through one eye hole at a time, and would have lots of trouble looking -forward- without turning their whole head.

This is probably why M and A made Tef faces with far apart eyes. Kind of cool when you think about it.

-So, what to do?
Coming up with creative ways to get around these things can be fun. For example, maybe have a skullface that has a thin layer of skin and muscle over the bone. This could allow for some eyebrow movement or other subtle expressions. For a deerface, maybe watch some videos of deer interacting, and take note of the way they turn their ears or move their heads. You might also note when a deer uses their tail, or what stances they take when confronted with different situations.

I imagine someone, somewhere, will read this and think "Why should I care? That's work, and I like how I play my character, despite how it isn't entirely plausible."

You're right, it is your character. No debating that, you do what you want. No one's going to force anything on you.

However, if you want to be taken seriously, going the extra mile to make your character believable is completely worth it. I know for a fact that many people appreciate those extra details in RP or writing of any kind.

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November 25, 2012 - 7:33pm — Apoidea

Thanks, Lu. I have been

Thanks, Lu. I have been thinking about this as well for awhile. It definitely would make things more interesting if things like this were implemented with deer that had these specific traits.

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November 25, 2012 - 7:38pm — cicadia

highfive

*highfive* <3
And thanks to you, GB. It's nice to see I'm not the only one who's been thinking it for a while.
I think there are a lot of things like that in the game that get overlooked. I might have to start a series of blogs just to get all my ideas out...

Hopefully they don't offend anyone too bad. I'm trying to make if more of a learning experience, rather than finger-pointing.

November 25, 2012 - 8:14pm — Apoidea

Those who are hurt by it are

Those who are hurt by it are hurt only by themselves, not you. <3 These are really wonderful ideas and I want to see more of these blogs. I mean, when things like this are overlooked it's mostly for convenience. But sometimes complicating things just a little with a character can make a person fall more in love with it, even little things like how their body language is in response to a stimulus. The things don't have to even be super-specific. It makes RP posts a bit more defined and longer, too.

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November 25, 2012 - 9:33pm — OrinocoFlow

Oh I agree with this

Oh I agree with this completely. I've been trying to get a good balance between a sort of asthetic/stylized look and realism or semi realism in my case. I want the deer to have more expression than a real deer would yet at the same time not wanting to push it too far. It is so hard and I'm never happy XD haha
I have plenty of study guides for deer but I just can't seem to get the anatomy to stick in my head XD

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You do not have a soul. You ARE a soul. You have a body.
~ C.S. Lewis

November 25, 2012 - 9:59pm — proudwolf

I can honestly say I haven't

I can honestly say I haven't thought all that much about things like this, but you have a very good point. Facial expressions are often used (at least I see it this way) in place of words or other actions--in role play, of course. In artwork, it is used to express emotion of the character. I think most people like that human like-ness in their characters. Perhaps they like to do so to further distance their deer from "normal" deer.

And masks? I wasn't sure how they could talk, let alone make expressions. xD

Maybe all my blabber is wrong. Maybe facial expressions occur from lack of knowledge about deer faces. But I hope people leran a bit from this. I will definitely try to.

Thank you for this post.

November 25, 2012 - 10:14pm — wingeddeer

You make some really good

You make some really good points,especially since i've never considered these before.And even though I probably break alot of these rules when drawing my faces xD ,I Thank you for pointing them out <3

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November 26, 2012 - 4:56am — Valeska

I take everyone's in-forest

I take everyone's in-forest look with a grain of salt. For example - my Calida. In-forest she has a skull mask but in "reality" she doesn't. The skull mask just happens to be the closest mask available to represent her markings. The few I've come across who DO have skulls as faces play them well. They mention they would smile if they could, their voices are floating, etc etc. Sometimes they act as if they are in Tim Burton movies, like say, Corpse Bride. Their skeletons move to a point and it doesn't make sense. My point is - this is a world of fantasy. It is what we make of it. If someone wants to have teeth where they shouldn't and bones that move then it's okay, that's their character and it shouldn't be up to anyone else as to how it's played. I don't like having "rules" when rules weren't made for a reason. Nothing about this world is realistic....it's only as realistic as each player wants it to be.

Not speaking against you or anything. Just my opinions on the matter. ^_^

November 26, 2012 - 5:02am — emslee007

I totally agree with Calida

November 26, 2012 - 5:03am — OrinocoFlow

yup I see where Cali is

yup I see where Cali is coming from too. ^u^ its all up to the player

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You do not have a soul. You ARE a soul. You have a body.
~ C.S. Lewis

November 26, 2012 - 6:14am — Pandoras

If you guys actually bothered

If you guys actually bothered reading to the end of Lu's discussion, she mentioned that this was not intended as either rule nor forcible opinion. She's offering guidelines and advice to anyone who would perhaps wish to play it more on the realistic side of this fantasy.

She isn't forcing anything on anyone, nor is she ordering anyone to do anything.

November 26, 2012 - 6:17am — Valeska

Like I said, I wasn't bashing

Like I said, I wasn't bashing anything she said. Can't someone state a reply opinion without being bashed? An opinion is like an a-hole, everyone's got one, lol. I did read to the end. I was re-stating. People on here need to stop being so defensive and just take something for what it really is.

November 26, 2012 - 6:23am — Pandoras

Bashing has nothing to do

Bashing has nothing to do with it.
You were not bashing Lu, nor was I bashing you. I was simply making clear she was not, as you stated, making rules. I merely wanted to revise your 'I don't like having "rules" when rules weren't made for a reason.' statement, as that was the opposite of what Lu was doing.

Nothing more.

November 26, 2012 - 6:27am — Valeska

Ummm...I didn't say Lu was

Ummm...I didn't say Lu was making rules, did I? I added that in there on my own without any influence because it's my opinion regardless of what anyone ahead of me said.

stop making assumptions.

November 26, 2012 - 6:30am — .

Here we go...

November 26, 2012 - 6:39am — Pandoras

We'll go with that then. My

We'll go with that then.

My clearing up what's been said is apparently making assumptions, but.
Oh well.

In any case thanks Lubebe, I was always slightly irked at the moving skulls thing. I adore the combination of fantasy and reality, but of course, since fantasy is just an exaggeration of our world, I like to see some anatomical correctness, and all that jazz, as you know~

I also never really thought about the eyes and the skulls in regards to human versus deer, though I feel like a derp because it's obvious hah. Interesting for design purposes for sure. Have to keep that one in mind.

November 26, 2012 - 6:44am — CydaLuva83

Alright, I want everyone to

Alright, I want everyone to calm down, eat some snacks, brush their teeth, and go their separate ways. Please and thank you. There's the door, have a gif on your way out. Thanks Panda for being nice in your last post. <3

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November 26, 2012 - 7:16am — OrinocoFlow

(No subject)

<3<3<3<3

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You do not have a soul. You ARE a soul. You have a body.
~ C.S. Lewis

November 26, 2012 - 3:55pm — WonderfullySarcastic

I honestly never gave any of

I honestly never gave any of this thought before, but it all makes total sense now that it's been pointed out. In my case, I rp my deer-faced character with smiles and other human expressions because I a) never thought not to, and b) it really is more convenient than having to learn a whole new way of interaction. Definitely ought to check out some deer videos in my spare time now~

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#1354
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November 26, 2012 - 4:11pm — Seed

I tend to keep my characters

I tend to keep my characters human-faced (because it's a neat thing about the setting, why waste it?), but I actually do thnk about masks. It's why Seed wore the kabuki mask just after his stag-day, but changed out when I realized the eyes on the mask were painted on. I like masks that look like they'd be easy to manage or somewhat expressive.
(except brow-motion, which I tend to use either 'the mask is thin and kind of mobile' in writing and 'cartoon mask' when drawing, since I tend to cartoony style anyway).

That said...There's something to be said for not taking a character so seriously, too. I regret TEF's lack of comedy characters sometimes.

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