February 19, 2014 - 7:00pm — Apoidea
It starts as a tiny feeling and from there it grows. It trickles in through the edges of one's subconscious mind, falling like raindrops into the conscious world. At first, it is a sightless world. Soon, small sounds of birdsong and the rustle of trees remind you that you are conscious. Your soul winks into existence first. Your world fades into existence, bringing a spark of joy. Your soul gathers itself, as if preparing for something much larger... and then a bit of you transforms into many others. A chorus of voices fills your ears, prompting you to wake up and realize that you are not alone, but part of a collective consciousness.
This collective consciousness is why you are here. Each soul behind each avatar shares the same feelings you do. Each new meeting brings sparks of happiness to both souls. Make each meeting as bright and hopeful as if it were the first time. Each parting brings a slight sadness to the souls involved. Make each parting as kind as possible, as nobody ever knows just when they will meet each other again. Each soul comes into this little world of ours hopeful, excited, and new. Remember this. Each soul behind each avatar has its own burdens, triggers, and fears. Remember this as you interact with others. Above all, remember that each soul came here equally: They started off young, growing over time. If love, care, respect, generosity, understanding, and honesty is given to each soul, it will grow into something beautiful. If a wrong is committed to a soul, then it will foster something ugly inside that will spread. Do not lower your tines if you don't want others' lowered toward you. Do not turn your back to someone unless you want your back to feel the score of their tines later. Do not hide behind your mask, for your face is still human underneath. We're all the same under the spells.
We are the deer of The Endless Forest and we should take to heart what the creators wanted for this game. Many people seem to forget that this game is not something we should take at face value, but is made to be enjoyed together.
Be helpful.
Be honest.
Be gentle.
Be accepting.
Be playful.
Be excited.
Be happy.
And remember: You have to help one another to enjoy the magic of this place. Those who do not wish to help will not be helped by others.
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It's about time to lay the drama to rest. Please add your thoughts below.
If i could reach into the
Thank you.
very beautiful words .. you
remembering how I started playing, I understand that this game was carrying good magic and joy .. remember how it was insulting when with you did not want to play and how was distilled .. might be worth have a little patience to newcomers?
with other players (older) .. harder in my opinion.
I agree. You worded it so
Yes. Very true.
Thanks, guys. I am glad that
May I say something? This
And I agree wholeheartedly: it's time we lay the drama to rest; look forward instead of looking back, and take off the masks so we can better see the light of a bright fugure.
And wanted to quote from Jun, "But live and let live. Focus on enjoying the forest, and the forest will focus on enjoying every one." also beautiful and true.
(No subject)
So many people forget that
Oh look at that I'm ranting. 8C
Wonderful rant to
Thank you very much Faina! (:
Well said. And also to you,
Very True , Apo !!!
(No subject)
//crawls through the
//gives Apo a big ol' kiss
//recedes again into the abyss of the internet
I am sorry, I just want to
-Rusi Vulakoro-
*snuggles with
I also would like to put here that everyone is still entitled to their 'Limits' when accepting others. Mine, I am going to put out there, is when people try to deceive me. I have paranoia and deceit hurts me mentally more than a lot of other people. I have been working on it, but my triggers still pop up every once in a great while.
Thank you guys for being so understanding. I just hope I am not as big a hypocrite as I feel right now.
Thank you.../sends virtual
The way you worded the vibe
Careful with that.
disclaimer: I own none of
disclaimer: I own none of these images or quotes. But thought they were good quotes on the subject. Also sorry for the spam..
I think it is wonderful
-Rusi Vulakoro-
Uit, I thought it needed
Faina, I like those. They work both ways.
(No subject)
Well said, Apo. And to all
Even if I agree mostly,
We’re all humans. We have different personalities, feelings, interpretations. We aren’t always going to get along. And that’s fine. You don’t have to like everyone. Try to live and let live, sometimes maybe you’ll need to bite your tongue. Sometimes you need a bit of time to cool off before wording something.
But if you get hurt, don’t feel as if you need to be silent. Like your emotions are unwarranted in a place that is so to say peaceful. However nice that sounds, it’s not. No place where human emotions clash is entirely peaceful. No emotion is unwarranted. You feel how you feel.
So be angry, be sad, be upset. Maybe you feel lonely or any other not praised emotion. You’re still human and that’s fine. In the heat of emotions we sometimes say bad things, though. Step away from the computer first, talk to a calm friend who can read over your words and tell you how to do it better. But don’t feel like you need to just shut up and take it. Drama is sometimes the wrong word for things. Human emotions aren’t just drama.
Still, sometimes people are going to screw up. They’ll get caught in their anger and say bad things that possibly hurt others too. That’s going to happen. And however much it sucks, sometimes you have to try to look at it from another’s point of view as well. Give them time to cool off, maybe let them vent, then come back to them later to talk about it. Perhaps try to turn it private, there’s no perfect solution for these things. And I’m sure more times in the future shit will go down. Can’t pretend it doesn’t. Try to be calm if you’re not in the argument, don’t pull conclusions when you only know one side. Even if it’s your friend, which is really hard. Sometimes, just stay out of things.
But the idea that blogs need to be deleted as soon as something bad happens confuses me. Let people vent sometime too, they’re just humans. If things get very hurtful and go nowhere, yeah, perhaps. But even then it’s hard to say when that happens exactly. Let people decide themselves if they want to delete something.
Peace is nice but don't pretend bad things don't ever happen. We're just humans.
Also wanted to add, there's always people that say this is just a game, and I personally find that a pretty harmful thing to say. Of course the forest itself is just a game. The people behind it + their emotions, aren't. Don't view those as 'just a game'. People put time and effort into the development of their characters, personality and design. That's not just a game.
The sentiment of love and
Though I love the idea of peace that comes with the forest I must agree with Mis also... as humans we make mistakes and we clash and fight and sometimes that's just part of life and it can make you a better person learning from mistakes or experience. I believe in the message of love and kindness, but I also believe in preaching for the resolution of problems through honest and open dialog. Sometimes I think it gets mistaken for drama when maybe people are actually really upset.
How so? There are effective
There are effective ways to inspire people/advocate your values. So I wonder why you chose the blunt tool now, since the comm.'s got your personal example already: your character, your take on the theme in your artistic writings.
Didn't that prove good enough?
The dogmatic tone in the blog clashes with its purpose and mood. Its honesty doesn't wash, to me.
@Uit- I didn't build this
@Mis - I tried to say something to that effect in the comments regarding people being able to be angry, but it got lost. Thanks for explaining further. People will probably see your larger comment more than my piddly one. XD I totally agree with everything else you said.
@Alison- I think it starts to become drama when someone decides to lose their cool and accuse others instead of expressing their feelings. Feelings are absolutely great. Just don't use them to hurt others.
Mis, I must say that was well
No, that's way off my
It's going in circles:
You're pushing this ideal since it's non-viable on its own.
You want people to play by those values like they're an accomplished fact. While they're not.
You build up emotional imagery and you urge others to act on the feel, like it's universal. While it's not.
And you're using TEF game terminology to stick it all together.
It's not adequate to the lay of the land here. Looks like you're just rubbing your views in.
What you're getting out of it at best, is figure how many were inclined to agree with your POV in the first place.
So how's blunt force working when it comes to personal views?
Apoidea, your writing is not
Judgement isn't something we should give, unless we can give the same judgement to ourselves and remain happy and aloof. If you can't be positive, then why surround yourself with those who are? It'll only bring them down, and in the end, you too. It's honestly a viscous cycle.
Needless to say, everyone deserves to smile. Even those who feel as if they shouldn't, this place is an escape. It's a beautiful world we can tuck ourselves away in. Where daily grievances won't bother us. So....Lets keep it that way.
Discord:Nazzard#9068 ||Click for bios.
Ah, that definition of drama
I've reread the thread a few times and I'm getting more good feelings out of it every time. I tend to be thick-skulled in nearly all things, especially philosophy and so rereading becomes a necessity. So, just adding some more thoughts along the way.
You mentioned limits in a post and I've thought some about that. I think that it's sort of a companion with the idea of tolerance, that idea that in a community you don't have to be friends with everyone but you have to be able to put up with them and accept them as they are for the good of everyone (so long as they aren't hurting people of course). It's not as easy of a lesson for me as I wish it was. Like you have Moss being non-aggressive (what a rad guy) I have La and in a lot of ways she's the very accepting person that I hope to be someday.
I'll also add that what you wrote didn't come across to me as dogmatic or forceful in the slightest. It felt more like something a kindergarten teacher would say to kids in the school yard to help them calm down after a little fight. It was gentle and firm and educational... I don't know what you do for a living but have you considered working with kids?
Uit, I am going to be
Thank you, Alison. I am actually a Psychology major going into Alzheimer and Dementia studies. I suppose that is like working with kids and adults at the same time.
We all have gifts to share,
Thank you Night. I also
I also would like to address the pervading idea of 'deleting things.'
When I say that someone probably should delete something, it is not because I don't want to show the community, but because I don't want it to continue. It is plain to see that if there is an argument out there on this community, the majority of the active community is going to want to add their own input or defend their friends. It's a vicious thing that keeps on building as long as the opportunity presents itself. If the blog is not there, the argument usually either leaves the community or diffuses into smaller, more easily-managed sections. Of course conflict is good for the community, but when it explodes out of proportion, it becomes time to 'put it down.' If it is brought up awhile later, maybe it would be easier to resolve, but when emotions run high it is not a good idea, IMO, to fuel the fire with an open argument.
So, because you don't want
Honestly "delete this" is often shouted before anything escalated at all, and many good and well worded posts have dissapeared because of it.
This place isn't drama free. No reason to try and make it so. Helping people understand eachother sometimes might need escalation too. When it turns into a gif war of course which is also a form of people evading a topic they don't like or trying to bury it, I'd see more use in deleting it.
Also, when a blog gets deleted, the argument or topic doesn't dissapear. It's still in people. It might just fester and escalate later. That you don't see something doesn't mean it's not there.
Quote:Also, when a blog gets
I believe I addressed this several places in my post. "Cool down and come back to it." A lot of people have the ability to reason much better when the fight in question is removed from their immediate field of view. They often lose the immediacy and their fight or flight response calms down. This is why a lot of sports coaches encourage teammates who become aggressive in a negative manner to take a walk or perform other activities: It gives them time to think on what happened.
Does anyone want to see the drama here? Is this no different than telling them to take it to email or Skype?
We are the moderators. Every single one of us has an opinion on how things would best be done. That is why this even becomes a debate. (Which is good, because everyone helps in forming a universal guideline, just like any other society.)
Honestly, I only throw a "Delete this" in there when I see the first signs of people throwing their logic and patience to the wind. There is a point in an argument where it is plain to see that someone is going to blow up soon. If the arguments were to stop before that point, it would give the player the opportunity to calm themselves and approach from a better angle.
Sure there are going to be people who can't just let go of their anger and it will just build over time. They are the people who are going to cause the largest problem and say the worst things. Do we honestly want something like that to cause issues here when it doesn't have to, immediately or later?
My entire philosophy on this is not to prolong the issue, but to squish the anger before it starts spreading.
Yes, of course people need to
You’re right with that on email or skype people don’t see it either. Which is ideal, the people it’s about can solve it in peace without interference. I still believe people can be told this on topics on which arguments start. The problem is, is that when a topic is made an an argument arises, it’s already on here. If people get to talk it out in private and the topic is no longer needed, sure, delete it. But people need to talk it out. And usually when a topic is posted in public, it’s no longer about two people. Often there’s many people who feel the same, or who disagree. This means other people with possibly valuable points. And sometimes, yes, anger, but since when is that an illegal emotion?
I don’t see how everyone being a moderator as you say has anything to do with laying down a universal guideline. In my opinion, no one is a moderator, instead we are all humans with emotions and we all matter. We shouldn’t get deleted because someone thinks our emotion doesn’t matter, our opinion, etc. Not everything’s always going to be expressed nicely, which sucks, but that’s also because we’re humans.
And that’s okay.
Noone is going to approach again when something is deleted. Perhaps sometimes the people who are mad at eachother throw logic in the wind, then there’s still other people who read it who can have a logical response.
Your last paragraphs really just make my point stronger. People will have anger build up if they never had a chance to talk about it/get rid of it. They’ll explode at some point. Usually when a topic gets deleted, what do you think happens? Passive aggressive updates either in skype statuses, personal blogs, ranting at friends. It doesn’t solve the issue and mostly just keeps it under people their skin. I’m not saying keeping a topic up would solve that issue. In some things people just aren’t going to agree, but that doesn’t mean such a disagreement holds no value. If someone is, for example, bullied, and we have the topic deleted because it causes drama, do you think said bullying stops? Of course not. They’re not going to feel welcome regardless. I’d be more for talking it out. Perhaps a neutral party, not just friends of people, could do more in that regard. Just “delete” is the easy way out. It doesn’t solve the problem. It’s not squishing any anger. It’s still going to be there, it’s still going to spread, it’s just not going to have a place.
Quote:Yes, of course people
If someone does not go through and contact the other party regarding a way to work things out, then there isn't much use in it. The topic may be out of community eyes, but that does not at all mean it is gone.
The bold part is what seems to bring about the most issue, as well as the most urgency for the person on the brunt end of the problem. Not only do they often perceive that they have no time to back off and rethink, but they also feel a need to defend themselves to everyone that posts. The longer it takes them to reply, the more overwhelmed they get as the posts build up and the more likely they are going to become frustrated by this. This is one of the main reasons drama should be handled off the community. It also doesn't stop people who have good, valid points from contacting the people in question.
I never said emotions or opinions didn't matter, or that is why we delete things. I don't see how I insinuated that at all.
This is not true. I touched on it above. If someone feels strongly on something they are going to keep at it, as they feel a need to. If they want to figure out a way to deal with it, they will often rant at their friends like you note below. Those are often the people with the best points, because they can get through to their friend much better than someone who is outside, if only because they're more likely to listen. Of course, there's always going to be the friend who agrees and is angry just because it is their friend in the argument, but I would hope that the arguer would look for some level-headedness.
I disagree here that it doesn't solve an issue to remove it from the public eye. Removing something from public view does not stop the problem, just like you said. It also does not stop people from reaching a solution. If they really want to come to an agreement, they can make contact with the other party. It's what we have on many disclaimers: "If you have a problem with me or the way I play my character, please contact me through..." Usually the ... is your email or Skype account, right? It's not very often the community or the biography that people want the issues posted on.
Deleting something is not necessarily the easy way out, but it is the easiest way to keep the drama off of the community and allow players to work something out at their own pace. It is their choice whether they want to work it out or not. I understand that some people are going to choose the 'not' and that the situation may dictate (such as in examples of art theft) that the person be brought to the community's attention. But that does not mean that all arguments should be brought before everyone. Some things are best dealt with in private.
We’re going in circles here
By the topic I mean the blog in question. So yeah, true, it’s deleted but not gone. Exactly my point.
The person on the brunt end has pressure from people telling them to delete something too. Something gets posted with a reason, no reason is more valid than the other. If people simply posted something to offend I don’t think they’d delete it when told to.
If emotions/opinions do matter, then why tell people to hide them? That is what you insinuate.
In your view people turning to close friends ends up positive, in my view it doesn’t. Not always. It depends on the company. There’s no black and white there, it could be good it could be bad. Can’t conclude it’ll always be good.
Yes, those disclaimers exist, and I hope they’re used, but not all arguments start up as a between two people thing either. Like the one from a week or so ago that was more someone disagreeing with how something went on the community.
“Some things are best dealt with in private”, and some things are not. Nobody but the poster, I’d think, gets to dictate that. Of course it’s up to them to go through with something if someone tells them to delete it, but I’m pretty sure they’ll feel that pressure like any human being too when being "told to". I do not believe people get to play moderator. Why not play neutral party instead, if you have to anyway. If anything I'd be more inclined to suggest people to take things on privately, if it is indeed a topic that goes between two people. If it's a more community wide thing, then trying to bring in neutral and calm arguments for one or both sides would be a lot more helpful than telling someone to delete it.
I am not insinuating hiding
I agree with the turning to friends thing. I thought I made it clear that it doesn't always work that way. In the end, though, it is often the truth that people are going to listen to their friends.
"I'd be more inclined to suggest people take things on privately."
I do not understand how that is any different than asking them to remove the debate from the community.
I don't think we have had a good 'community wide argument' in a long time, but more toward a 'community wide attack on one or two players.' I think we can both agree that that kind of behavior isn't something that's really wanted or necessary to keep around.
Thanks for the talk. I think we have good points for both sides here.
It was good reading what you
The best thing about forums is that we can look back at the past and see what people said. For instance, I can see things that I said three years ago--I don't remember writing a lot of them, don't remember my feelings at the time, but I can stop and I can analyze.
I don't think that threads should be deleted because people need to be able to read what was said. If it gets deleted, people have no way of coming back to it later to reread and ask themselves, "Did I handle this the right way? Did I misinterpret what was said?" Those are such incredibly important questions for a person to be asking themselves after a conflict and it really helps if they can read what they said and look at themselves critically. When I clash with people I usually stew on it for weeks if not months, replaying it and trying to think about what I said and what I did wrong or what I did right. If I didn't do that then I'd never improve as a person.
Threads need to stay up so that an argument can end. People need closure and catharsis on their issues, people need to see things through to the end. Cutting off an argument is like reading a book until something exciting happens and then throwing it away. You never know what could have happened, no one does, and that looms over everyone's heads for a long, long time.
By leaving the thread up you also will be able to contain the argument. If the threat goes away, the fighting will spill out into other threads. I've seen it. If there's a thread for the argument, people keep it there and don't need to let it spill out. People who don't want to see arguing can very easily avoid the thread by not clicking on it.
Furthermore, deleting threads removes evidence. Hypothetically, if someone is really bad, let the world see it. Let their words be known to all. Let them see their own words.
It was very interesting to
@AlisonRobin
Weren't you before, hm?) It's
Don't hesitate to question my point on this, by the way. I didn't post it for pure sake of monologue.
Your approach looks far-fetched, so I wonder how many were persuaded [minus those simply agreeing]. I'd like it if they spoke up.
Thanks, Faina. Alison, That
Alison, That point is awesome. I am only in disagreement because lots of people seem to think that it is such a good thing to have the arguments on the forum due to them helping to solve the situation, but I see a lot of hardship involved in that in a way that may not be necessary. Too many arguments have created wars. :/
@Uit- I totally have in the past and it was actually funny how many people did agree with me. I won't hesitate, I am just trying to find my way in wording it. I also wonder how many people really agree with the second part of this thread. I like seeing both sides. It is important to have both to create a solution.
If all problems could be
They take it to the forum because it's an open space where people can talk and it doesn't have to be personal. Rather than trying to discourage arguments and conflict in the community and trying to push them away we should be trying to encourage people to, for lack of a better term, argue better.
I live with four other adults... we're good friends but we don't always agree on things. Sometimes we harshly disagree on things. But we are all very, very good at arguing constructively with each other and a major clash never lasts more than half an hour and never lingers, no matter how hard we were butting heads. Replying to things with "I feel like this because reasons reasons reasons" and "I disagree with you because reasons reasons reasons" or "What you did isn't okay because of reasons reasons reasons please don't do it again" really goes a long way.
I would hope that as humans we can have our differences and our disagreements here, but we can do it in ways that don't leave wounds. Honestly I think that will come down to individuals, and the best way I know to deal with someone who is causing a lot of problems is to tell them once politely ("what you did isn't okay because reasons reasons reasons please don't do it again" etc.) and after that ignore them entirely. It's easier said than done though, and I am weak when it comes to ignoring. I just need more practice.
I'm not clear what the difference is between wars and drama, and where all of these things are different from conflicting, clashing, and arguing. Normally I am a real stickler for precision of language but in this case I can't bring myself to care enormously about nomenclature.
I say that we let people say what they want to say, and if conflict arises it will be up to the individuals involved to resolve it. I know that people like to jump in to things and voice support or state their emotions or say anything at all really and it can make things very, very messy but I don't think that is a good enough excuse for removing a thread.
Personally I would rather
I think you should always
As far as I am concerned, you always have the right to walk away from and or ignore anything, especially if it makes you feel bad. In fact, walking away from a conflict peacefully is probably a pretty fast way to end a fight, because it takes at least two sides to have a clash.
I think that you especially from what I have seen, Junalia, have demonstrated a lot of maturity by staying polite and straightforward when confronted and I have seen you work to resolve problems rather than escalate them. I really respect that about you because it does show your commitment to peaceful interaction.
I wanted to say the same
Actually, I found some of
I feel that if an argument can only be solved by walking away, then it wasn't much of an argument to begin with, so it is nothing to really worry over.
In private people are yes, more likely to be unrestrained when expressing their thoughts and often come off as mean. To me, this does not mean that they are trying to attack me, but I find it actually heartwarming to know that they can speak their minds freely to me about my negative actions. I try to consider it constructively and defend my points as necessary. I know there are many out there who can't, though.
When I talk about the
I know at least with me I want people to be open with me where other people can see me. If someone hated my guts, I would totally rather have them say, "I hate you because reasons reasons reasons," in public rather than in private. Then everyone knows why we'd avoid each other and that person and I never need to have any contact ever again and we can just go on with our lives.
We congratulate and share affections openly, why not all emotions as long as there is politeness? And if hostility exists and can't be resolved we may as well be open and honest with that too and quietly acknowledge it and work around it peacefully. That goes back to just the general core idea of tolerance.