January 17, 2011 - 7:17pm — quadraptor
Just a new idea I wanted to introduce, please feel free to post your thoughts about this. None of this is an attack on anyone here, it's really my views of people in general.
My eyes have been opened since learning from Buddhist and Zen teachings. It hasn't even been that long ago that I started looking into it, and I have a completely different outlook on life and people. The teachings encourage you to be open minded when it comes to others, but I wanted to get some opinions on a few things I just don't understand about people.
I've noticed that there are people who are obsessed with showing off. They drive the most expensive cars they can get (and often spend hours keeping them shiny and spotless), wear expensive clothing and jewelry, take hours to put makeup on and do their hair, and so on.
I don't understand who they're trying to impress. I may be a guy who doesn't understand people, I guess. It seems so stupid to me that people would go that far out of their way to glorify themselves, and generally others don't like those kind of people. It's like the women that dress in a revealing way and then get mad when someone stares at them, you know?
I try to be different. I have a few rules when it comes to the way I dress (for example, I don't wear orange shirts with blue jeans), but otherwise I prefer to be comfortable. I don't understand the purpose of high heeled shoes - they've been proven uncomfortable, they look uncomfortable, but they still wear them. Is 'looking taller' more beneficial than comfort?
It seems like all people care about lately is money. Movies lately have been themed around the ultimate goal or climax being that the main character "gets a whole lot of money". I watched two yesterday that were exactly like that. I wish people would realize that worshiping paper is just as stupid as spending hours to glorify yourself. Yes I understand that having money, you can do whatever you'd like with it. There's a video game that will come out next month that I wouldn't mind having, but it'll cost me $60. I see it as spending money toward an art form as well as a source of entertainment, something beneficial to me. It's not like spending $60 on some namebrand clothing or jewelry to impress someone.
I've spoken to friends before about standards. They've been set in a way that favors supermodels and body sculptors. It's terrible when we're constantly seeing "for people to accept you, you have to be thin" (or in my case, "for people to accept you, you have to be able to lift a 300 pound weight"). It seems like discrimination to those of us who don't fit the standards.
I'm at the point where I could care less about what is 'socially acceptable', since it seems like 'socially acceptable' translates to 'thin, flashy, bling bling, rich" and so on.
I may add a little more to this later since I have run out of time to write what I wanted, but what do you think about all of this? I plan to make other discussion topics similar to this too.
I wear clothing given to me
But I am lucky to be able to dress the way I want.
When I was working for the board of education in Japan as an assistant teacher, there was a dress code I was expected to follow. Because there is an image presented by our appearance. I have no experience with dressing 'nicely', so I pieced together a makeshift wardrobe spending as little money as I could, because I don't value clothing. What resulted was an unflattering collection of things. My frugality showed. I saw, everywhere I went, women dressing in more attractive ways following the same guidelines I had. The difference between their clothes and mine really was the money.
They took enough pride and care in their appearance to invest in it.
There were times I seriously considered purchasing very expensive clothes, to show the same pride in myself.
I know some people use money and things to try and draw people to themselves out of a fear that they, without such things, could not hold a stranger's attention. And I know some people surround themselves with things because they fear being alone, and our culture has told them every day of their lives that buying the right things will bring them companionship and happiness, as well.
But on the other hand having nice things projects an image of valuing oneself. A way of trying to show others ones own beauty. Like polishing a stone and setting it in a fine metal.
I am wearing a shirt my sister's friend left her when he moved, jeans and socks bought for me at Christmas, and a hat my stepfather never wore. I am happy being a stone on the ground, because I am surrounded by people who would pick me up, enjoy my weight in their pocket, and perhaps, find in me, some shining ore.
I think not everyone is so fortunate.
I don't strive to be the best, but instead I strive to do my best, and always give it my all every time.
-faunet
We've become a highly
On appearances... people, women especially, wear the ridiculous and painful/harmful things they do because we've been bombarded since childhood with the notion that we have to do these things in order to be 'fasionable' and attractive. A perfectly beautiful girl will be totally ignored, or even given advice to change her appearance in order to be more attractive and noticeable, just because she's not wearing makeup, no hairstyle, no crazy shoes and she's wearing what's comfortable to her. There's nothing wrong with her, but society's notion of what beauty is insists there is. Its the same for men. Both genders are expected to look, think and act a certain way, and if you break the mold you need to change. Thank God for the people out there who look beyond the superficial. They're rare, but they're out there.
Buddhism is wonderful. Zen can be brain-melting xD Its so difficult to wrap your head around sometimes, and sometimes its merely so simple we have a hard time accepting it. The simplest, and best way I've read it was, "Work as long as you can. Rest when you're tired. Eat when you're hungry. This is the road of zen." Native societies functioned much the same way pre-colonialism... things happened when they needed to, not according to when a clock said they should. "Indian time" still very much exists xD Meetings can happen "in the afternoon." Whether that means 12 PM or 5 is up for debate. It starts whenever almost everyone is there xD Its a way of living I wish we had adapted to instead of obliterating... we could benefit from it immensely.
tl;dr oh god I need to learn when to shut up, hehehe
While I can't speak on
First of all, know that I come from a Southern family. I was born and raised in S.C., by a mother who was born and raised in G.A.
For as long as I can remember, my mother, who raised 2 children by herself(and thus, worked very hard every day to keep us clothed and fed) would get up at nigh on 5 in the morning, get dressed, put on her makeup, and go to work(which she usually had to be at by 6 a.m.). She often spent all day walking; she was a postal worker, and walked the route. She usually didn't get home until around 5 or so, and often, after taking a shower, would get dressed, and put on her makeup again.
Why?
Because my mother was taught that the appearance you show people every day is, more often than not, how they will perceive you. We can go on and on about how looks don't matter, but it's not true. Human beings are visual creatures. I'm not saying you have to be thin, svelte, and pretty to matter to people, no, but being clean, wearing nice clothes, having well-kept hair, etc? We judge people on that.
We can say all we like that we don't, but most of us do. Especially where first impressions are involved. First impressions do matter. How you see someone for the first time is often something you don't forget. If you meet someone for the first time and they're wearing dirty, wrinkled clothes, with oily, greasy hair and, say, bad breath? You're likely to never forget it.
On the other hand, I don't think you have to be rich to look nice! I'm certainly not wealthy - I haven't been employed for 3 years - but when I leave the house, I make sure I look nice. My hair is done, my clothes are neat and straight, and I tend to wear make-up. Not all the time on the last part, but as for the rest? Yea.
It's not that I want to flaunt the fact that I'm pretty - I'm not. It's not that I want to show off how wealthy I am; again, I'm not. I was simply taught from a very early age that the face I show the world is the face the world is going to remember. When I'm at home? I lounge around is sweats and tank tops and all manner of things I wouldn't be caught dead in in public - but this is my private abode, and I'll dress how I please.
For me, it's not about vanity, or money, or showing off.
It's just that I was taught not to look slovenly in front of people, especially strangers. It's about putting your best face forward.
Bylah, you do have a good
Some people take it too far, too. Not skinny? Don't wear much makeup? Not attractive. Can't afford $500 heels? You're not my kind of people. That's where it becomes asinine... but its what a surprising amount of people are like, whether its unnecessary snobbiness over appearance or wealth or a combo of the two. Its sad.
I think - and have always
I've noticed, through my life, that social standards greatly depends on the mutual mindsets of people, the social circles in which they thrive, so on, so forth. Most of the people I know share your values, have an open mind and don't judge on appearance as much as the more "mainstream" crowd would, but this might be because I live and study in a very laid-back place, with a collection of all the people who were picked on by the more popular crowd, ironically, the people with the big cars.
It IS rather distressing to see the world coming to such a shallow common social value-status as the one you describe, but I've always believed that birds of a feather get together, and that the birds with the loudest voices are the ones that'll be heard the most. Crows, rooks, they make a lot of noise, too much for anyone to hear the nightingale and blackbird singing below the noise, even though most people would definitely rather listen to those. But amusingly enough, there are just as many loud birds as there are songbirds.
Oh, dear, I hope the above
Eyestrain - I can relate to
Bigcrow - Yep, I completely agree. As I said before, I wish people would be more accepting of everyone instead of thinking people have to conform to the standards. Some of the Zen teachings I read essentially said "Don't try to change anyone, they're perfect and beautiful just the way they are with their flaws and defects." And yes, some of the Zen quotes are simple but confusing. I know exactly what you mean
Bylah - I can relate - I live in Alabama and people here seriously don't like anyone who is different. A coworker of mine was from Bosnia and another coworker was constantly calling him a nazi and a terrorist. It was very irritating how rejecting he was of the guy just because of where he was from. And I agree with you, there are standards that should be met such as having clean hair and not-so-bad breath. I didn't mean this in that way, but more toward the notion that buying expensive things makes you more attractive.
Chickenwhite - Don't worry, I understand exactly what you mean. There may be birds that are loud and obnoxious, but the songbirds are there singing just as well instead of keeping quiet. I guess aside from you guys I haven't really met anyone else who would fit into the 'songbird' category.
A lot of this comes down to
Stepping back from humans for a second, let me illustrate an animal example: the male bowerbird. These birds will spend hours and hours building a structure (a bower) out of twigs, leaves, straws, basically anything that they can weave into it. This structure isn't a nest, it serves no practical purpose, and they are often large and take a lot of time and energy for the male to build. Some species will even spend a year or more creating the perfect bower. The whole purpose of the structure is to be big and spectacular, for the simple reason of impression. If the male bowerbird can impress the female with the first impression of his bower, he has acquired a mate.
On top of the physical structure, the male will also spend a lot of time and energy, sometimes ranging many kilometres, just to find decorations for the bower. These can be things with bright colours, shiny things, anything really. Again, the goal is impression. The flashier his decorations are to a female, the more likely he is to acquire a mate.
The point of my example is this: Would you say that a male bowerbird is simply showing off, glorifying himself? Would you call a female bowerbird shallow for picking the male with the bower that most catches her eye?
Sure, the human example doesn't translate completely, but like Bylah said, human beings are a very visual species. Much of our communication comes from visual cues, and there are some things that universally translate into 'attractiveness'.
Generally, the way we make ourselves appear is tailored to give a message to our fellow human beings. I agree, that it doesn't mean that we need to spend ridiculous amounts of money on 'superficial' things, but there are some standards that are universal regardless of wealth.
When a male human being dresses in a way that shows off his strength, he is telling the females of the species that he is a healthy, viable mate. When he adds things that, in our society, we cue with being successful (style, wealth, etc), he is, to use the bird metaphor, adding decorations to his bower. He doesn't need those things to be attractive, but it helps to catch the female's attention. Other males do it in other ways.
When a female human being puts on make up, or dresses in a way to show off her figure, even simply doing her hair, she is advertising to the male's that she is a healthy and viable female. Again, she can add on to her appearance with things that human beings have come to associate with success.
You mentioned about a game that you want to spend money on, comparing that to buying brandname clothing. I beg to differ. For you, spending $60 on a game is part of how you define and express yourself as a person. You have chosen to identify yourself as a person who enjoys video games, appreciates them for their art and entertainment, and is willing to spend that little bit extra to get a really good game. How is that any different from someone who identifies his or herself as a person who enjoys fashion, appreciates it for its diversity and artform, and is willing to spend a bit extra on something that is stylish and will make them happy?
Yes, the media has changed what standards we hold for the general populace. I think you'll find however that if you look beyond the blindspot you've created for yourself by seeing everything as negative, you'll find that there are some standards that we hold today that are actually good for people to try and live up to. Fit and athletic models: exercise. Clear skin and shiny hair: cleanliness. Yes the media is wrong to promote the airheaded and extreme shallowness that we sometimes see in movies and other things, but I think the people that truly benefit from the media are those who observe and then think about what they see rather than making up their minds and refusing to see beyond the pretty pictures that are being flashed.
Quad, I mean this is the absolute kindest way possible, and I want you to realize that I'm not attacking you at all, but from what you've written here and in other posts, I think that a lot of what is upsetting you is coming from your own inner conflicts. It seems to me that you have chosen to label yourself as an 'outsider' to what you see in the media, and because of this, you can't find peace with who you are. I'm not saying that you need to change in order to fit in, I'm just saying that I think you need to change your outlook on how you fit into society. Rather than seeing yourself as an outsider, and claiming you don't understand how 'they' act, try to simply discover your own identity that doesn't rely on the mainstream to tell you who and what you are.
(Sorry about the long post, my brain suddenly woke up and apparently had a lot to say.)
Trigger: Yes, yes, yes. You
Popularity(as this is what this sort of boils down to) is a fad.
It changes with the times, and what is 'popular' now would've been abhorrent centuries, even decades ago.
In the past, being skinny was a sign of sickliness, for example. What society now considers as 'overweight' would've been not only acceptable in the 1500s, but also considered healthy and a sign of wealth.
Chances are, when we're all old and in nursing homes, we'll look at our grandchildren and shake our heads at what they consider to be appealing, physically.
Trigger is very right, though, with the bowerbird analogy. We see wealth as a sign of success. Our mental evolution is appeased by this concept - people with wealth can support a family, for example, and while we are thinking, feeling animals we are still animals in our own way(P.s. you'll probably never see another Christian utter those words. Just wanted to toss that out there.).
Thus, we're mentally programmed to be attracted to shiny things, sorta like bowerbirds! I can see where that may seem shallow, but really, it's just the way we've been programmed. It's part of our mental motherboards.
All that changes is how society interprets 'wealth' and 'attractive'.
I've always thought it
When food was scarce and only the rich had large amounts of it, it was most attractive to be plump and shapely.
Now, with dollar menus and take-out, the social norm has flip-sided and now it is attractive to be thin. And so on and so fourth.
It makes me sad to see people obsessed with such frivolous things to make themselves happy. There is so much more beauty in this world than the newest style of jeans or the color of a person's hair. But we learn from childhood that materialism and advertisement are the 'mainstream' and that if you don't have the 'cool' toys or school supplies that your peers do, then you are lacking in something important.
I have high hopes for change, though. It would be wonderful to see people finding joy in simply being alive, rather than in the newest line of chic clothing, or what have you.
Trigger - I understand now
I understand now why I have these views on vanity from your post. It all has to do with being attractive to the opposite gender, and the way I was born I'm just not interested either way (I'm considered asexual, I am not attracted physically to either gender). Maybe I should reread the Zen quotes on accepting others the way they are.
And for the last paragraph you posted, you are right. I still am having self-esteem issues, I see myself as an outsider because I am so different than 'the main crowd'. I often forget that everyone is different and that there really isn't such of an 'us and them' situation as I perceive. Quite frankly I still consider myself to be an abomination as a person. I know that is horrible to say and I'm sure anyone reading this will probably shake their head, but I just cannot see myself as anything but a failed attempt at a human being. It's just the way I am.
Sorry, I didn't mean for this to go in that direction. I am actually going to a therapy session in about an hour, and please Trigger don't feel like you hurt my feelings or anything. You really are right.
To be honest about
I'm vain, and I like my stuff. I like doing my hair, I like buying expensive clothing, and I like to have general stuff, be what it be...and I'm okay with that. I get that some might call me shallow, but like, it's just something that I personally find fun. I like to show off, and I like to do things like that, -shrugs- I find it fun.
Am I trying to impress people? Probably. Human desires are most often motivated by sex, so, if in underlying reasons for why I do what I do, I'd be okay with that.
That's me personally. I can't speak for others.
Quad: If I had it in my
If I had it in my powers to teleport to you right now, I would, because more than anything I want to give you the tightest hug possible.
The mere fact that you can honestly look at yourself and evaluate your own strengths and weaknesses makes you a success as a human being. As a collective, society has become so concerned about others that we often forget that we have to think of 'me' sometimes. It saddens me to see that people are losing the ability to first look inside themselves and second, like what they see.
Quad, we all have our flaws and our defects, as your Zen quote said, but that is what makes us so special! You are a diamond in the rough, and you're just waiting for your moment to be uncovered and polished so that the whole world can see your shine! Even a diamond needs a bit of trimming to uncover its most brilliant aspect.
<3
Edit: If I may paraphrase from one of my favourite stories: we search the stars looking for miracles and wonders, and we tend to forget that one of the most miraculous events happens with the conception of every child. Remember that through fate or chance or divine intervention, somehow all of your features came together in just such a way as to produce you and only you. The chances of this combination is so astronomical that you have to appreciate that you are a living miracle. If that is what makes us human, this unlikely mixing of traits to create each and every one of us the way we are, then Quad, you are a shining example of what happens when those traits come together perfectly to create an individual in all his glory!
Quad, I thought I should
I have, until very recently, considered myself a neuter. I have not found myself attracted sexually to people of either gender. But I did meet someone who attracts me. He is a very, very rare type of person, and our meeting is a very specific circumstance.
I think you shouldn't give up on yourself entirely when it comes to love or physical attraction. It may be that you and the one for you have not been in the same place at the right time. It is not a bad thing to be asexual, I have had most of the best experiences in my life as a neuter. But it is not bad to find comfort or excitement in someone else, either.
I hope your session goes well. You are not a failure.
I don't strive to be the best, but instead I strive to do my best, and always give it my all every time.
-faunet
Quad: My mother always tells
You shouldn't worry about satisfying others, if you're not satisfied. In the grand scheme of things, our lives are terribly small and finite. Best not to waste them worrying about what others think. You matter, first and foremost.
Don't ever compromise a part of yourself, for others. Always, always remember Shakespeare: 'To thine own self be true.'
And if that's a little too serious for you, remember Dr. Seuss: 'Those who mind don't matter - and those who matter don't mind.'
Well, when it comes to
*EDIT- heyyy Bylah said pretty much the same thing in a lot fewer preachy-sounding words. I need to learn from you, hahaha xD
To me, the material things I
To me materialistic self-representation is very important. It is a way for me to express a connection to certain objects or to the philosophies those objects represent. I think others are the same, the majority of society seeks to express themselves through the things they own, the car they drive, the clothes they wear, ect. I don't think there is anything wrong with materialism, but I can't say I echo or endorse everything it is used for. The idea that driving a sweet car makes you a more valuable person doesn't make sense to me, and it makes me wary that so many seem to think net-value is all important. Value is important, but letting your personal scale of value dictate your material attachments; regardless of the value the rest of the world places upon it will lead to a deeper and more meaningful connection with those objects.
-Which is such a pity, a
I'd rather live with magpies
Well, at least cockatiels
XD but cockatiels are
(I know, I used to own a few)
Pfft, genius XD Nothing
hahahaha. I have ringneck