I feel this sometimes too. I think a lot of players do too, honestly.

honestly.. everyone should be treated equally here.
And not over-looked. ;-;
but im so glad people feel the same <3

Thank you, someone else who has totally stated exactly what the problem is!

yes.
and I hate how you go around attempting to make a new friend, or interact and your just rejected. I've just given up, like approaching characters in game and being attacked or glared at? Honestly?

yeah that's what i meant, there would be no interactions on the blog itself, but it would be to find another deer who needs interactions in-game, and out. everyone would post the picto, bio link and a little about the deer ;u;

I've found that with interaction blogs, it's easy to lose track of replies and people generally lose interest. Perhaps a timetable, chart or something similar might be more appropriate, where people can opt in to have their deer registered. There could be a time zone, their affiliation (good, neutral, evil) and perhaps even a slot to indicate any general OOC wishes for their respective player, i.e. friend-seeking, plots, etc.
Something like this could be done easily on Google docs and viewed by all.

Other things that the Forest is lacking lately are events/plots. There used to be an annual Valentines ball, deer-trains with Quamar and general huge random gatherings. It would be nice if there could just be a single day where all players are OOC and just spend time in the forest playing together normally.

wow, Verdalas, that's a great idea!
i like that, so we'd just put up a blog so people could register their deer, like with the rut how they post little forms, and we organize them into a chart/table that all can see, and browse ? and perhaps we could spotlight a few deer every week to go on the front, and just change them out as we gain more members, or something like that? cx haha.

edit] i do wish there we big fun gatherings like that, they sound fun /:

Verdalas is right, there needs to be more community gatherings etc, what we need is someone to be willing to host them. You know what. Maybe someone could create a blog for a list of fun community ideas and gatherings to do every month or every 2 months whatever people prefer. Then again, I'm happy to make the CSS part of blogs as well. We should generate a list of people who are willing to make an community act as a group.

@ Mjrn: Thank you! c:

I have a few event ideas I'm collecting or sitting on to try and antidote this feeling myself -- when I cement anything well enough for brain-storming, or after the rut (because doing anything then will just complicate things), I'll let people know! I do like the proactive turn this thread has taken, as opposed to just talking about things that make you unhappy. It's much better to do things about things that make you unhappy!


Of course, it's worth remembering: ultimately, if we want others to be more sociable, we need to be more sociable ourselves. I let myself fall into traps of getting intimidated by pictograms I don't recognize, or deer in groups I don't know. I try and be welcoming to anyone who comes up to me, even if my deer is with friends (because I think clearly the problem is not that characters have friends), but I don't often enough ask to be welcomed. I could try harder to be welcoming, too, I think.

I'm quickly going to create a mock-up in google docs since I already have a gmail account. I'll post the results when I'm done.

Okay, so.. I made a quick little form (not too familiar with google docs forms) but when submitted, it adds you to a page listing the information you've submitted. You're also able to see what other people post and, with the timestamps, get an idea of when it was sent in.

Check it out here and the responses here.

That's pretty awesome, Verdalas. (:

I agree. It's either be attacked or be ignored. That's what drove me to make a tempermental character. Maybe if she was bad like the others, she might get some roleplay action, and all she did was get her closest friends taken from her for no reason.


I've left this community 5 times over the past 2 years. I can't stay away for more than 3 months and I always kick myself for returning.


That's why I made an OOC character. No friendships or enemies to deal with. Just romp around with whomever and have fun. No drama attached. Like how the game was meant to be in the first place.

<3 I'm thrilled to hear that, you have no idea. Lumi being pushed away from Raj and Lonno was a huge blow to her....i almost stopped playing her completely because what was the point?

I've made plans for her since then to work with the trauma that I didn't want for her, so hopefully she'll be okay. But I see myself going on my OOC more often rather than my characters unless their family is in the forest.

I just look at the map and if I don't know who one is, I click it. If none of my few friends are in then I either sit alone or stay out.

With Eira right now, I'm IC when I'm with someone else IC, and when I'm with someone OOC, I'm OOC, I think it just makes things easier for me. Eira may be terrified about everything but I want her to make friends to help her cope with it, not run at the sight of everyone. She's overall very friendly.

Well if people really like the spreadsheet idea then when it's finished I can post it as a new blog that people can track. For now I just want to iron out details and maybe take suggestions for what to add in.

I definitely agree, although I haven't personally experienced this first hand in the same way because I haven't been very active in the forest- I'm working on changing that. But I have seen a reflection of what goes on now a days in the community website, though I never wanted to get involved in the drama, when I should have been interested in speaking up to diffuse drama, and just because it didn't affect me didn't mean it wasn't harmful to the TEFc.

I'm glad you made this blog, although as you have said there have been many like it and not any noticeable change in the way things work here- but it is a step in the right direction, being open and sincere about the problems in this place. I recently typed out something related to this issue for Deyna's blog about what makes an IC deer, though it got bumped down and I doubt anyone read it, so I hope you don't mind if I post it here ;-;? It basically just says what you're saying here, but I went more in-depth with my theories about the cause of the problem.



Although I think I may have failed to take into account what a problem some of the behavior exhibited by aggressive characters is, what with characters being attacked for 'IC reasons', which can range from anything from casting a devout spell or sitting in the wrong spot.

Again, there isn't necessarily something inherently wrong with a character whose not nice or friendly at all, but it is your responsibility as a player to not just say on your bio that you are responsible for their actions, but to actually insure that their actions and even traits are not inherently problematic. This is a multi-player game, and not even strictly a role play one, and the forest is it's own little world. Thus you have a similar problem to what we have in the US, people who will say terrible, and offensive things based on problematic ideals, but dismiss people who call them out on it because they have the right to free speech.

There are many nuanced and alternate ways to play an unpleasant, even aggressive character without resorting to claiming and violently defending territory in a game for everyone with limited space. Though as a side note there isn't anything wrong with having a spot that you consider 'yours', in the same way you might refer to 'your' friend because you love them, not because you have exclusive rights to that person's company.

You just about summed it up.

As a person who’s been here for a while and who’s very bad at commenting I feel bad people feel this way? There’s also a voice in me of course that says if you want to see something then that is what you’ll see, but perhaps that’s not the right discussion here.

There’s something I don’t really understand though.. There will always be people with less easily approachable characters. Do you guys feel like, those players then also reject you? Because I’d like to think that’s not the case. I have the problem myself where my character is a bit of a grump with young children and some bad experiences, so he takes a bit of time. But then people also don’t approach my other, nice characters because they have been possibly rejected by my moody guy?
Some comments here make it sound like you want to easily get into characters’ groups without going through the hassle of having a character, with it’s own personality, get to like your character. Just like in real life, not everyone is as trusting of new faces. It might just take a while. But it’s not impossible.

Not that I don’t experience insecurity like that on my characters, though. I often don’t really know how to get to interacting with people. Everyone will always say “oh you’re free to come to my character!” But that doesn’t actually make it easier. Not that the fear of being chased off plays a role. Perhaps I’ve been here so long now I feel like people already have their judgment of me as a person clear, and that makes me insecure.

That there’s less and less friendly characters I can agree with, compared to years ago. Otherwise I feel like there’s always been people who are considered ‘populair’ and those who are new. Who eventually might’ve gotten to that ‘status’ too. In every place in life there is hate to people who have been dubbed populair, for getting attention. In this place I’m not sure when you’re on that status, since there’s nothing to achieve in the game. People have called me populair in the past, but I really don’t get more people to interact with me? Or more comments on a bio, or easier access to art or, yeah I just don’t know what the achievement is but people frowning at you.

I agree with Seed really. We need to change things ourselves instead of being angry that nobody else is coming to us.

I will admit I don’t get the google documents thing much, aren’t you in essence now creating a separate group from people who miss out on this topic? I’m pretty sure everyone who is in-forest is up for interaction. Being chased off doesn’t mean the player hates you at all. But if I add my evil deer on this chart, will people then realize I don’t hate them if he chases them? Isn’t that something you should try to assume normally too? But if it helps people, then by all means. It just confuses me.

Meadow brings up some interesting points. I could reply to that now separately but I am getting the idea I’m letting this get waaay too long as it is as I’m reading through all this haha..
Oh and, adding this because I feel it’s always necessary, I am not trying to attack or dismiss anyone with the things I’ve been writing in here. If it would come across as that. I truly hope not..

what happens when i'm in game is, if i see a character who has chased them off or another of my characters, i will usual avoid them, and the deer around them, i will also steer clear of those in groups who i know are roleplaying almost every time they are in forest. all of my ic deer are social, or want attention, so i'll just send them straight up to any deer, and if they respond to a bow, or head tilt, we'll interact. i usually don't wait for others to come to me, since i have limited time in forest and no one seems to anyway.

and everyone, verdales's idea will be posted separately so others can see it when it's all done ;u;

What is an effort to reach out to other players then? To me honestly that isn’t looking for fawn players. I always ask for players PRIOR to any pregnancies, because as you can tell from looking at TEFc, a lot of the fawns don’t actually get played. I find it extremely important to find reliable players, and in that case I am indeed very inclined to look at my friends first. Pretty sure anyone else would too, and giving out fawns seems a horrible way to reach out. Instead we involve the community by letting them have a say in possible design ideas, which is a lot of fun in my personal experience. It helps us and it gives people the opportunity to indeed feel involved and well, design something, which is always fun.
Otherwise, all my characters, plots and big projects I’ve done have always been to involve others. Verve’s craft blog is unfortunately a bit inactive due to my time restraints atm, but those have always been free for everyone.
And best artists stick together? I seriously don’t hope people think others pick friends based on artistic skills. I am friends with the people I am friends with because they’re awesome people, and I’ve been through a lot with them. I’m sure that goes for everyone. Nobody is ever not good enough to be a friend. I don’t “pick” people I want to be friends with. It happens or it doesn’t. Also, sometimes people just don’t match. And that’s okay too.
Then again I am not here to defend myself. But I do think a lot of the views on people who hang out with their friends (which is normal, might I say) are a bit judgmental. It’s normal to want to be with your friends, and if they have interesting ideas for your characters to interact with, then why not? I used to be very worried about making a new character and then letting those interact with characters of people I know. Because I felt I’d be judged for that. Later on I realized that, even if I don’t interact with them, people aren’t easily inclined to step out to other people their characters. So really, it doesn’t matter. Do what you enjoy, even if that is with your already existing friends. I’m always hoping and looking for interactions with new people, especially on new characters.

Sounds like a nice community, but not every place is the same nor can be. It’s very normal to rather not interact with people you have been hurt by or are uncomfortable with. I tend to evade certain subjects because they’re very upsetting to me. Sometimes people have characters associated with those subjects, then I rather try to evade those than complain about it. And by evading I don’t even mean ignoring in-forest, just rather not build up a close relationship with that character. And in your case, I guess since you personally addressed me too, and even though I’d rather not do this.. But acting like a twelve year old to get away with things, getting angry at people for IC characters that don’t automatically like yours.. I’m sorry but, that does put me off personally. I know you likely view it differently, so perhaps this is a little insight on how others might’ve felt it? Again though I’d rather not get into things like that on a blog that is not meant for it. I do believe in second chances, but that doesn’t mean I won’t be wary of people if they’ve done upsetting things. But, again, that doesn’t mean I’d purposely ignore people either. I have no reason to be impolite to you if you approach me without mean intent, goes for anyone. And if you’re worried someone’s not ok with you, contact them. So far a lot of people have an email on their profiles. Might be a weird thing to email about, but sometimes it’s nice to instead of judge beforehand, to get to know the real story. Often that’s just easier in private then dragging it on here.

I’m not sure if I agree that roleplay is more exiting with bad characters and drama. Drama is of course more than just tears, so yknow, good drama is fun. I think any roleplay is fun. But it’s sad if people think they can’t interact with people because of a negative view they have acquired one way or another, that is perhaps untrue. May it be due to a not-so-nice character or due to them hanging out in a group. Groups are intimidating though I’ll say that, it’s not my piece of cake either. But I’m also aware that problem lies with me. Me being intimidated doesn’t mean those people will hate me. Often the people you are afraid of approaching, are just as scared as you. Or scared.. Maybe the wrong word.

Oh god this is long again I don’t even know if I’m making sense anymore. I’d also rather not stray too far from the subject, so warn me if I am/have.

@Mis: Yes, this google docs thing will be posted separately when I'm finished with it. There's a few formula I need to go through to make sure it arranges the information correctly and some more that I want to try out.

By no means do I mean for this to create another splinter group of friends but rather a helping hand for people to find other deer who are also looking for new friends/company/etc. Ultimately it'll be up to the community to make it work, I'm just hoping that it's a start somewhere.

Oh I was mostly replying to that example as well, because it doesn’t seem a good one to me. And if people would judge me on my not giving fawns to people I’m not so familiar with, then that would be odd?

“And what if those existing friends are busy with their other friends or feel like we're RELYING heavily on them for roleplay because no one else will interact with us. What are we to do then? Some of us CAN'T stick to just our close friends.”

Now you’re misunderstanding me as well, since that’s not what I meant. What I meant was that I used to feel bad for doing things with my friends, because people have a tendency to then think you are being exclusive. So I would evade that. But even if I evaded interacting with my friends, it didn’t really change much, and withheld me from doing stuff I enjoy. That’s what I meant. You never need to just stick to people you are already very familair with, I guess that’s kind of what this whole thing is about too right? Making people more comfortable approaching people they don’t know. Which is a good thing. But I also feel a lot of negativity towards people who have friends they hang out with. Doing that doesn’t mean they don’t want to make new friends.

It can become a bit hard to trust someone if they’ve upset you a few times. That is also something you might have to accept, that not every apology is going to be accepted immediately. Very sorry you are bothered by all those things, and on being ignored, perhaps that’s not what people mean to do? It’s very easy to interpreted things negatively once you’ve had a negative experience. I’ve been accused of ignoring people whilst I was in the bathroom and my deer was asleep. That’s very hard to be accused of too. TEF is a game without faces, no text, nothing but your own interpretation. If you then tend towards the negative side, everything can become very negative. (also, camera angels, I have so often missed out on people because they were just out of my line of sight.)

Nobody needs to interact with anyone if they don’t feel up for it, really. Gehirn is a father protecting his newborns, and he is thus not very inclined to strangers. That people’d rather not try with him doesn’t surprise me. But he also has two super sweet older children who don’t have a thorn in their butt. And also, him being an ass doesn’t mean I am. I always feel pretty bad for those he’s an ass to, even if I can explain why he is. It’s not meant personally, but if people don’t feel up for trying with him then they certainly don’t have to. I just hope they don’t think all of my guys are going to reject them.

Personally I don’t think you can make a character so that they are liked by everyone? Or that a very likeable character will automatically have tons of friends. It takes more than that. Time, dedication, work, and yes interaction with people you might not be very familiar with. Perhaps just sitting around with other lonely deer helps. Because obviously a lot of people have this problem.

That’s alright, I have no intention to be difficult to people the rest of my life. I might’ve said this before at some point but that just really takes too much energy to bother with? And you know, you say you know 4 people still feel hateful, but have you ever tried to approach them personally on an email or something? Without demanding them to forgive you or something like that. It sometimes helps to show you’ve learned and are willing to move on without feeling like someone’s “hating” on you. Even if it’s just being neutral, not so much friends, but atleast feel like there’s no hate. But that’s just a personal tip from me, nothing you have to do. But you know, those people you might think hate you might just feel that is too much energy to bother with as well. It might just not be that bad. I think it could really help you if you didn’t take things so personally. But perhaps you already know that.

Verdalas:
Ah alright, that does sound better. So really anyone’s new character could be put onto something like that? I’ve got a guy myself that could use interaction of any sort. It’s definitely not so that I don’t experience what most people here seem to have. The insecurity you are perhaps not wanted. Rationally we all know that’s not true 99% of the case. I guess it’s important people address that it’s their own insecurity too, and not just people excluding them. Often nobody means to exclude another.I can only speak for myself there of course, or the experiences I've had.

Mis: Yes, anyone can be put on it. Think of it like a LFG tool found in MMORPGs. Whenever you enter the Forest, you have the option of putting information on there to find others. It's intended to be used per play session rather than posting your information once. This does mean it'd be up to the player to choose when they're going to post their stuff, otherwise it'd be a hassle for players to browse through hundreds of rows of data to find something.