Blue:
Shall I take this to email for you? I fear we might be flooding this.. And I promise I won’t suddenly put on a hard face.

Verdalas:
Sounds like I need to play more MMORPG’s. But sounds interesting. And trying something new is always better than just feeling something needs to change and then not doing something. So I’d be curious to see where that goes.

Yes, I agree. And I'm trusting you, though of the ones I've had hard times with, you and Sight have been...how should I say this? Not sure how to put it but I feel I can trust you more than some of the others. ^_^

There's a part of me that wishes it was like it was back in the old days - minimum CSS work. Everyone's biographies looked nearly identical, and it somehow felt far less intimidating. Felt far less inclined to try to live up to what I was seeing, because I wanted to be there too.

Not that it would make things perfect again, as I still have numerous issues to work through, but I don't know. The simple stuff I saw way back when was just as lovely, given the limitations of that time.

(oh my god I started this a few hours ago sorry it's like.. late and stuff. wasn't sure if I should even post it actually hhh yolo)
I really like the css too, haha.
Anyway.. huh, sorry if this ends up being a long one, feel there's a lot that I would like to say. No idea where to starttt aaaa (bear in mind I'm probably just gonna quote from people, s'easier that way so I don't get sidetracked easily, I babble a lot). I can be pretty bad with wording so excuse me if I come across as blunt. 8(
Since I've been labelled as popular before I'll speak from my own experiences as well as from what I've seen because I've been given a lot of reasons lately to feel that I am one of the ones these opinions are being pointed at. What I've noticed on this blog (and many other times) are a lot of people making some really obnoxious assumptions about "popular" players, and quite frankly, the bitterness and obvious distaste from this amount of people is getting hurtful for a lot of us.


I disagree. Being in character doesn't automatically say their or their player's likelihood of branching out goes to impossible, I think what many people are doing are shoving a lot of characters together under the same judgement just for having aggressive tendencies. I won't name anyone or their characters, but there aren't actually many legit "evil" characters around on TEFc and the very few that I can think of have either been for plot purposes and have interacted with the majority of characters ingame/through open interaction blogs, or do actually have positive relations - and even then, there are also negative relations but they are associations meaning there has been interaction. Meaning the players are branching out with their characters. My character Umay would probably come under the "dark angry character" catagory despite having a neutral/good hearted core, yet we both have a lot of friends ICly and OOCly? because yes, actually, I do bother to branch out, most people do - that's how these "social hierarchies" have their groups.


"most characters" - point proven; characters being grouped together. It looks like a lot of people lately are missing the whole point of roleplay, in character/out of character, having a character: when a character is hostile it doesn't mean the player of it is rejecting you, it means the character is rejecting your character. I have made numerous friends in the past and in recent days from my character being 'enemies' with someone else's. If my character doesn't like yours, that does NOT whatsoever instantly mean I don't like you - this is an assumption a lot of people seem to be making these days about others, it destroys the point of IC and OOC and it makes it incredibly difficult to feel comfortable playing a character with aggressive traits, a problem that occurs for me a lot now. Or in fact, playing any kind of character who makes one single negative action. If you're willing to play a character of your own, then you have no reason to get upset over another character's actions. Our characters do not define who we are as people. If you want to meet a person then contact them, talk to them. It isn't necessary for characters to be friends in order for the players to be friends as well.
As for this defeating the purpose of the game; there are no rules, M&A have made it clear before that they're okay with what the game has developed into. The purpose of the game for me is to enjoy it how I want to enjoy it, and I'm trying to do that by playing my characters how I would like to play them and by enjoying time together with the friends that I have made and continue to make, but it's hard to do that when I and many others are being looked down upon for doing just that.

Really sounds like everyone's making their own little definition of popularity. Quoting something Mis said:
"In every place in life there is hate to people who have been dubbed populair, for getting attention. In this place I’m not sure when you’re on that status, since there’s nothing to achieve in the game. People have called me populair in the past, but I really don’t get more people to interact with me? Or more comments on a bio, or easier access to art or, yeah I just don’t know what the achievement is but people frowning at you."
Especially that last bit. Isn't it what this whole entire blog is, people frowning at 'popular' players? These rants aren't exactly warm hearted and welcoming to those who are left assuming it's about us/them, either. The reason we have groups is because they are our friends, people we feel comfortable with, people we love. The majority of players here have circles of their own and that shouldn't matter, I'd rather not tell my friends right now that I can't be seen around them because it's making us look popular and everyone else is disapproving of it.

A little bothered by how everyone seems to expect every single individual on the community to be instantly accepting ICly and OOCly - I'm a super friendly person, but I never made an oath when I signed up saying I'll aim to be every single person's friend and I'll like everyone. I can't; something we may forget is that no matter how someone appears outwardly on the forum or how confident their character is, a lot of us are timid people. Umay is aggressive, confident, dauntless, but I am not her. I'm shy as hell, I get anxious and nervous meeting new people and I can't even post a blog without hesitating for ages rofl, and there's people here that I would /love/ to meet and talk to but I can often shy away. I do try, hence the friends that I have, but it can be difficult, y'know? Shouldn't always wait for others to make the first move and get angry when they don't because a whole lot of us aren't confident socializers.

Sham shares a similar point to something in mind, though:
"Honestly, I usually just let people come to me, because as I've learned, if it's the other way around, it's more or less, 'I want to be acknowledged, but by a very specific person', rather than just anyone."
Could be wrong, but the impression I'm getting is that some people center their entire forest experience around people they deem worthy of their interest and when it doesn't work out they feel butthurt about it. If people's standards for who they choose to seek out weren't so high they'd probably have a lot more fun. After all, the general complaining is about not being able to interact with popular players - I feel confident to say that I'm pretty certain a lot of people who complain about popularity also overlook namelesses/fawns/new players themselves.

As for people being drawn to characters with good art, designs, and css - eh, yeah. Though it's expected, no? I think it's safe to say we're all guilty of it. It draws in attention because it's visually appealing and it shows to us the moment we look at it that this person has put a lot of effort into what they've created. If you saw a plain blog that was laid out like this:

name: bob
age: adult
gender: male
personality: friendly, happy, cheerful, helpful

and then saw a biography with drawings, CSS, detailed info, you'd be more interested in this, right? Not implying that 'Bob' would only ever be ignored, just saying something attractive is more likely to make someone go 'ooh'. People receive the attention they work for, I guess. Not saying it's fair, it certainly doesn't feel fair, but that's how it works on the internet and in real life. It's like.. imagine you're stood in front of two homes - one is a broken down.. shed, the other is a gorgeous mansion. Which would you rather live in? lol. ;;
I do wish it wasn't that way, but it is what it is.

Ah, sorry. I can be really straightforward/blunt when I explain things, really don't mean to sound like a douche. B(
I am sorry to hear that a lot of people feel like this, really, and I do understand the feeling - I just feel it's misplaced and unnecessary given the actual.. circumstances..? idk. Whereas I do see and agree with some things others have explained, the points I went through were more just for the other side of things because a couple of people I've spoken to are starting to feel a little down about some treatment they get over the whole popularity thingy. I'm all up for Verdalas' idea though, it's a real sweet gesture.
omg and I realized the topic is dwindling a little bit lmao ;A; spent way too long writing this, hnghhscreams. probably 5894854 typos as well. ooo and on a sidenote, I probably won't be too responsive to anything new, don't wanna bat forwards and backwards too much against each other. /withers away into oblivion

I'm not much for popularity, but it's nice to have friends, haha. Characters that my charrie can interact with and develop without having to worry over CSS. I could probably add a little "I understand this" after every time someone comments, but I don't wanna flood things for no reason. |D

I'm another one who was considered 'popular' at one point though I don't know why, but one thing I've learned that in order to make friends, you have to give respect to earn it. That means treating others fairly.

I've been polite and treated others how I've wanted to be treated for years. Yes, I've had my share of issues and I'm not perfect. There are those out there who don't like me. I can never make everyone like me.

People aren't going to like you overnight. When I first came here in 2008? No one would talk to me on here, let alone give me the time of day. Things were a bit better in the forest, and yes, there was barely even any roleplay at that point. Then eventually, I met one deer, Yorres. It took a while, but I made other friends. Things haven't really 'changed' much here. People are just as shy and insecure as they were back then. It takes time for people to get to know people, and unfortunately and fortunately, this community has gotten huge.

I've done my best to comment on people's artwork, all sorts of things when I can. I know what it's like to feel left out, I've felt that way countless times in real life. People need to reach out too, even the new ones. Even the people who have been here for a while are just as intimidated with the new people; I barely know a soul in the forest now when I sign in to play. That intimidates me too. There's whole new 'groups' that even I'm afraid to approach.

I don't know what I'm trying to say, but I think everyone here feels the way you do at times. I try my best to include people when I can, and I know that sometimes it isn't possible with my characters. Hell, when I'm in forest now, a lot of people don't interact with me, and like I said, I'm supposedly one of the 'popular' ones.

Please don't take a lot of this to heart. I should talk, I do too. But reach out, don't be afraid to make more friends. Make a comment on a bio, surprise someone with a drawing or a small story. Start a small RP on their bio. Sometimes that's all it takes. If the person doesn't respond or doesn't click or seem interested, then move on. This place is a huge community. I'm sure someone out there will click with you. This is one of the few places I felt at home once.

I'm rambling, and probably not making a whole lot of sense, but figured I'd get some thoughts out.

Google Docs is currently having server issues at the moment so I can't finish off the two forms. I've made a basic RP-seeking form as well as an in-forest seeker so hopefully I'll be able to post them soon and see how they work out.


As for popularity, there was a time I was probably considered popular but that all vanished when people decided to publicise a private plot concerning mature themes. I don't regret what RP I do with with my character and if it means continuing to RP the hated guy, so be it. I just hope some people will consider character development so that they might actually forgive my character.

Have I hated those who shunned my deer? Sometimes, yes. It's very different to go from having a character that everyone once liked to gradually being avoided and attacked. It's like losing your grip on something precious. I would love for things to go back to the way they were and I admit it can be frustrating when my character is shunned when he attempts to make friends.

Yeah. I'm keeping Keshy close to home during the rut, due to already being pregnant, but I'm hoping for Lumi to get a friend base she can trust. Even if it's just one or two beings. She's already got plot plans but it doesn't go outside of family life, no drama planned or anything like that, just a guideline that can be easily deviated from if something interesting should rear it's head.

My OOC, meanwhile, will be mingling in the no-rut areas making friends as well. She's got a few already, makes me feel optimistic.

Right, I've posted a beta thread to see how it goes down and how I can improve it.

Sorry to hear that happend to you Hadou, that sounds like a horrible experience. But everyone makes mistakes, perhaps that person too, and not everyone is the same. So don't worry so much! You really don't need to feel like you can't go "bother" those people that have been labeled populair by others. As someone who has apparantly been labeled so in the past, I'd absolutely not be bothered at all. We're all insecure, even those people who you might think are super high on their pedestal and wouldn't ever look at you. They're really just shaking up there and asking if they can come down now. It's not fun at all.

I hope you feel better about things soon, and that you don't have to go through such an experience again. Not sure how I just worded things but, yeah.

Mis - you worded it beautifully ^_^

I'm glad this blog was made, and I'm loving how well it's being handled by both sides. Each side is voicing how they feel of things and, at least for me, things are being resolved through it. I don't know about the others yet, but after an unexpected talk with someone, I'm feeling LOADS better about continuing here. Finally at peace. Huge weight lifted, even. It's not 100% resolved with everyone yet, but this was a huge step for me, and I thank you for making this blog. I hope others will find comfort and solutions through it too.

Kind of late to the party and honestly I've not read everything, that's a LOT of text, but I'm pretty sure everyone else has already covered my opinions on the matter. Looking through the conversation between Mis and BlueOrchid, I have a penny or two to toss in;

essentially, if you were to think of TEF as a big playground, things would likely work like this. When we were kids, we met new people and gradually got our own little groups of friends, right? When we go out next, we'd seek out those friends because we enjoy hanging out with them. That's just naturally how things work. We don't walk past our friends and go specifically seek out random people, not usually, especially if there are already people around that we know and have fun with. It's human nature, and being that humans are the ones controlling these characters, I can't expect it to be very different.

One thing I would like everyone on this blog to keep in mind is this - all those "popular" people? They were all the "new kid" at some point too. We all started out knowing essentially no other players in the forest, and yes, it's hard getting started but if you try hard enough to branch out and meet new people it WILL happen. It happened for us, I think the pre-existing groups are proof of that, right? They didn't just suddenly start existing in the blink of an eye. They were formed over time and grew into what they are today.

I won't deny feeling partially targeted by this topic, seeing as I happen to know quite a few people on TEF and my deer are part of one of the decidedly bigger "groups" in the forest, socially. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to feel bad about hanging out with my friends? That's a little.. no.. that's really not okay with me. |: Anyone who's tried to approach my deer will know they're friendly and welcoming, as are pretty much all the other deer in that group, so. I'm sorry to say I'm not going to be made to feel guilty about not abandoning my characters' usual company, but anyone who wants to come by and say hello, wing it. I can't imagine they would be opposed to new faces.

Personally, that would seemed a little forced to me.. Forcing your character to branch out just because some out there are feeling left out. Some characters are quite happy with the friends they already have and that might just be them..
If I took my character Zahava -though I rarely play her- and forced her to branch out, she'd no longer be who she is.. Just something to think about.

And there's plenty of characters out there who do branch out. Why forget them and instead target others and tell them to start making new friends, like it's their fault or something?

Ok so this blog was totally not meant to make you guys feel bad :/
Honestly I look up to a lot of you older players for your characters and art skills .
This blog was meant to bring those who felt this way together to interact together, not force you guys to be friends with us, or force your guys characters to interact with ours. This was just to brainstorm ideas for us, so we didn't keep complaining and both you all :/ sorry if it seems like I was putting it all on you, I didn't mean to.

Ohmygosh verdalas, that was perfect, I'm laughing so hard.

"sorry if it seems like I was putting it all on you, I didn't mean to."

I admit I was somewhat hurt and offended reading this blog at first because I felt like we were being made to feel badly about making friends and spending time with them.. so I'm glad that you clarified that ;; thank you. We are just people, like you guys.. and I'm sure we've all been in the situation before too, so I have to assume you all have some sympathy / empathy coming from those of us who have our characters more socially established too.

Just wanna throw it out there, if anyone ever wants to come meet my deer, go for it. I don't have any characters that will be unfriendly for no reason, and even if they're not in the best mood they're generally friendly and welcoming ;v; though I do afk a lot, so they might be... boring, sleepy creatures... lD

"My mighty stick figures bestow untold wisdom and are an inspiration to all. "

I know that's where my talent came from.

Don't think this a bad thing at all Hadou, didn't make me feel bad at least. Nice to know what people are thinking and get out what I'm thinking as well ^^
I think people from both sides of this are bound to feel some strongly about the issue at times.

[e]And what Xemi said.. My characters are weird, but anyone's always welcome to come meet and/or roleplay with.. Rhea's usually out looking for new faces at times anyways, so I hope people will feel welcome to come to her or she might just go to them.

Got a thing to say on all this since I know one, possibly more, of my characters and their associations have been cause of issue. BUT, I suck at wording things and getting my thoughts into coherent sentences, so just going to track it for now! Hopefully I'll have something worthwhile tomorrow later today.

I personally love discussions/friendly debates like this one here. Gonna track and offer my own two cents.

Being an oldie here, I suppose I was once one of the 'populars' or at least a respected individual - that's probably changed now rofl. I used to branch out to a lot of different characters, include people that never felt so included in any of the other cliques. That was then, though. This community is constantly changing; new tight-knit groups come and go. I can think of one at the moment.

Point is, it's just something you have to roll with, conform to. Right now? Nearly every character you'll meet is a character, not the human behind it. It's something you have to recognize, respect that player for choosing to interact as a character and learn to react accordingly. In turn, the IC player should respect you and your playing habits, as well. If the two can't harmonize socially, then perhaps one or the other is better suited for a different crowd based more on their own playing style. If we're involving the popularity issue, then you have to conform. Understand that the majority here are very heavy roleplayers and have been for years. If you want to get to know some of these people and befriend them, understand that every action from their character, negative or positive, is that character's action and must be treated separately from the player's view of you. It's supposed to be fun, not discouraging. That's how I've always felt about it. My character just got rejected by another, am I going to personally take offense to it? Absolutely not, because there is still a chance for redemption. Look at it as a challenge to worm your way among their society, that character's clique. Understand that it might not happen in the end because maybe the two characters just don't have the chemistry to get along, and move on. And above all, handle it with maturity. I know it can be frustrating and seems hopeless, but keep trying, move to someone else if one doesn't work out, and don't react like a twelve-year-old about it. Remember, these are characters, and as their biographies commonly state, they do not reflect the views of their players. A character tries to rip out your character's throat, don't be offended. It's in the best interest of the game to take it in stride, play along with everything that happens. Whine and whimper about something that happened IC'ly, and you're bound to cause a rift between yourself and that player. They won't feel comfortable interacting with you because they know you can't handle their character's personality.

I'm no longer apart of any clique. I never really was; I stuck to one person. My habits here reflect the way I am in the real world. I am only social when I have to be, I much prefer to interact with one or two close people at a time, and I like to be the focal point of someone's attention. If I feel ignored by someone I look up to or want to grow closer to, then forget it, I'm outta here. This is how I am as an individual, and my characters have come to reflect who I am. Therefore, I'm not a 'popular', I don't interact with those big groups. Is it lonely to sit alone as a result? Hell yeah. But it's all on my head; it's my choice. I chose not to get involved with the larger parties for one reason or another because my enjoyment comes from interactions with one individual, or a couple. My characters reflect this; they're no longer very social. They'll sit for hours by themselves. And that's okay, it's my choice to keep solitary. If I wanted to interact with a large group, then I would. Insecurity isn't stopping me, fear of rejection isn't stopping me, because I don't see anyone as more popular than the next person who comes along, and truthfully, neither should anyone else. Label people like that, and you won't get anywhere with them and their characters. Behind the image of fantastic art, great writing skills, a bio with stunning CSS and a highly admired character, there is a person sitting at that computer or laptop with just as many insecurities and hopes and flaws as you. They are not some divine being up on a pedestal because of their accomplishments and talents here. They are people, and the sooner you view them as another person and not a popular, the better off you'll be trying to make friends in this community.

Autocorrect, I keel you.

I've read some but not all of all the comments here and agree with lots of points on both sides!
But I don't have much to say that hasn't been said before, so I'll track.

just a bump, so maybe more people can see it ;u;