Game Quotes

Unplugged's picture

Things I do when persistently avoiding unpleasant work.
This is for me.

I encourage open discussion about anything forest-related in the comments Smiling Discussion and new quotes can be found there.


Quote:
Your deer avatar will live for a full year. If you want to continue playing with all the abilities you've gathered, you will need to procreate. There are plenty of attractive hinds in the forest.
http://tale-of-tales.com/TheEndlessForest/plans.html

Quote:
In the original design of the game, 12 deer-years would be compressed in 1 human year. So that your deer would be born, grow up and die over the course of a year. For a week every month, deer would be able to procreate. I guess this means that the game would go through the 4 seasons once per month, a week per season and always the same: first week of the month is Winter, second Spring, etc. Could be very interesting! Smile

But as you know, we have abandoned these plans long ago, in favor of designing the game with you, the players.
http://tale-of-tales.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9049

Quote:
These symbols are easy enough to memorize to recognize your friends and still disconnected from the humans behind the avatar sufficiently, to encourage spontaneous playing together with total strangers.


Quote:
when they login, this pictogram appears above the head of the deer avatar (in a reference to the legend of Saint Hubert, who was converted to Christianity after encountering a deer with a crucifix between its antlers)


Quote:
This solution was part of the original design of the game. To create generations of pictograms, which would contribute to the story of The Endless Forest.
http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2010/01/05/a-new-generation-in-the-endless-forest/

Quote:
It wasn’t designed specifically for adults. We always thought of it as open to any age. But it was originally commissioned by a -very adult- museum of modern art, that is still hosting the server. And it has been developed with arts funding, also very serious and grown-up. But we don’t mind the kids playing at all.
http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2008/08/15/games-for-girls-piece-of-cake/

Quote:
I must admit that we did actually not set out to make a game for active player creativity back in September 2003 when we came up with the initial idea for The Endless Forest. For us, all that mattered was to create a believable environment filled with elements that inspired imagination, (passive) mental creativity.
http://tale-of-tales.com/blog/2007/04/04/player-created-gameplay/

Quote:
http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo133/Endless_Encyclopedia/Special%20Sets/RedRamAntlers.jpg
We liked the design but not the execution in 3D.
Hopefully we'll get a chance to make a new version of them and release them.


Quote:
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b236/ultimatedolphinluver/TEF_bubblywums_20080127_182939_304x.jpg
They were released with all the Mardi Gras sets, but were mistakenly put into the games. They were never meant to be released and were taken out soon after. I loved those antlers! Afterwards when they were taken out, if you were wearing them you appeared to have no antlers on your head.


Quote:
First of all, we are very critical of the concept of choice. Second, we have grown very attached to the deer's faces. At first, when Lina designed them, we didn't like it. We wanted normal deer.


Quote:
The Ruin has been there since Phase One. There was only one extremely early beta-test that didn't have the ruin (but a fence around that area instead).


Quote:
During Phase One (I think) there was a deer who logged in every day at the same time, just to stand in the middle of the ruins, never moving, never interacting. So the Twin Gods dropped a cage over it, trying to elicit a reaction.


Quote:
How do you feel about the way some of us have developed our deer into characters with backstories, personalities, etc.?

We love the creativity that The Endless Forest inspires. But sometimes, especially on the forums, some players forget that not everybody is playing the game like that. And what they say often sounds very confusing.
http://tale-of-tales.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5728

Quote:
In our first prototype, there was a limited number of mushrooms and when you would eat it, it would be gone and grow back slowly.
http://tale-of-tales.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=813

Quote:
And the feeling of things being out of your control is definitely part of our design, part of the "story" of The Endless Forest. It's about losing control to some extent, but enjoying what remains all the more. I guess (I'm not a critic).
http://tale-of-tales.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1231

Quote:
I like the current situation quite a bit, where you're praying to the Twin Gods but you don't actually know whether they are good or evil gods, especially given the presence of Christian symbols, and the fact that you're a deer, a deer with a humanoid face, even.
http://tale-of-tales.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4763

Quote:
We don't like the idea of defining your avatar's look outside of the game. We want to put as much as possible in the game and make it playful.
The appearance should be part of the "story" of the game and not just a cosmetic thing. We like things to be meaningful.
http://tale-of-tales.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=832

Quote:
We simple do not want to play that game. Knowing somebody's gender changes the way you interact with them in a way that we feel is not compatible with The Endless Forest.
http://tale-of-tales.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7300

Quote:
I like the idea of dark areas as well. But I'm afraid of the effect they might have on some players. When we were doing Halloween the first time, the amount of reports on asocial and aggressive gameplay rose noticeably.

http://tale-of-tales.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=119379

Quote:
"I think it would be nice to have seasons! Like spring, summer, fall, and winter. Imagine how awesome that would be! Smile"

This was in fact part of the original design of the game. Seasons are important to the life of a deer because its behaviour changes with the seasons (most importantly, during the mating season...).
http://tale-of-tales.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=110379

Quote:
We're not big fans of customization because such things tend to take you out of the game. Everything should happen in the game as much as possible. And since it's a multiplayer game, preferably make sense in a social context (maybe something you can do together).
http://tale-of-tales.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=107864

Quote:

Wow... It must have taken you

Wow... It must have taken you ages to do this!

Question - why did you do it and what are you planning to do with it? Sorry, I should really read the whole thing first *sheepish grin*
Anyway, nice work ^-^
Unplugged's picture

A few minutes actually since

A few minutes actually since I've seen things before and had ideas where to look. I'm just collecting it all in one place. Smiling I do this because I want to gather information about the concepts behind The Endless Forest, something to ponder about perhaps.

I always did wonder what

I always did wonder what spurred them to make TEF... Definately ponder worthy Smiling
Starling's picture

(No subject)

Ooh

/sprawls across everything/

/sprawls across everything/
ocean's picture

-bookmarks- I love little

-bookmarks-
I love little things like this.
What a neat origin for the cage!
Hart's picture

This is really fascinating!

This is really fascinating!
eyestrain's picture

Reading these reminded me why

Reading these reminded me why I was drawn here in the first place... I love all of the intentions behind the Endless Forest.


Really interesting to learn about the cage, too!

I now want to develop a character with a set appearance...

I don't strive to be the best, but instead I strive to do my best, and always give it my all every time.
-faunet
Verdalas's picture

The age thing there is

The age thing there is specifically why I age my characters per month. Hence why Walter is an old bugger. The other comment about the appearance being set in-game was also why I've never really had Walty look different to how he is in most of the fanart you see.

I remember the Red Ram set that rah-bop made too. I only ever saw it in-game once but it looked pretty awesome, despite being unfinished.

As for the mushrooms, I never knew about those!

The new quotes are really

The new quotes are really intriguing - imagine life without unlimited mushrooms!
Butterbrot's picture

~

~

z.m123's picture

♥

eyestrain's picture

I hope you don't mind but I

I hope you don't mind but I happened across this article that had some very interesting things to say about TEF.

Quote:

...Concretely, there is no in-game chat system, nor any other way of talking to other players than by using symbolic acts such as shaking your the antlers, rearing up on your back feet, or erupting a loud squeal. None of these acts ‘mean’ much of anything alone, and require other human players to react (ie, if I rear up on my hind legs, you cower in deference) and give the symbols a meaning. The game is literally creating a language for play from the ground-up by allowing players to decide what everything means. That is why the developers did not build any quests or external goals: all of the goals are determined by the players themselves. In that way, players have to ‘decide on’ what games they are going to play with each other from the very beginning: first they need to play together in order to determine what the symbols/icons mean to each other...


It's a fun article to read Smiling

I don't strive to be the best, but instead I strive to do my best, and always give it my all every time.
-faunet
Aivilo's picture

Humh, haven't seen some of

Humh, haven't seen some of these before~
Nifty idea to gather them all together!
Sighthoundlady's picture

It was very interesting

It was very interesting reading through that, I've often wondered what exactly are the opinions of the creators surrounding the game.

It still states on the game website that they eventually intend to make the deer live one year and eventually have to procreate to live. It is interesting to see the creators retract this idea…yet still have it stated on the website.

Also I was actually quite amazed to discover this community site with active RP going on and even a map so you could track people to their profile pages. When I first started playing the game (January of 2007) there was no community site. There was a Live Journal community but it wasn’t very active. The creators would announce abiogenesis events there which I was sadly never able to attend. But anyways, I did find it interesting that they created this community site which is clearly meant to encourage RPing and character creation based on the site layout and different blog post category. And then to see they had made a way to save your deer appearance was surprising to me, as I don’t recall that was possible when I first played the game.
Unplugged's picture

Yes I also found that part

Yes I also found that part curious. It'd be interesting to ask them about why exactly they decided to abanadon that, and whether they intend to not pick it up at all, or at least keep some of it.

It surprised me actually that they decided to implement the ability of saving spelldata since I always thought their opinion of appearance was to not get too attached to it, hence them disapproving of spelldata sharing ("it ruins the fun") and the implemention of the pond. I suppose this is also supposed to be a compromise to design with the players.

The community is an entirely different monster yes, haha. It's really a roleplaying community and I believe quite a few people actually started playing The Endless Forest because they could roleplay here. If you don't know about all of this going on, coming here is almost like a "cultural shock", so much new impulses and ideas, and hundreds of people communicating and creating the most interesting things. It's cool that M&A even encourage such storytelling.


I should go hunting again! Thanks everybody for the feedback.

Following this. It's so

Following this. It's so interesting to hear about this ♥. The cage one really intrigued me, haha. Thank you for this!

+

+

This blog always makes me

This blog always makes me curious what it would have been like to play TEF in the original way M&A intended it to be played. No set, no name, no character, no TEFc. I wish I could try it but I don't think I could, I'm not a blank slate anymore lol. I also don't think I would have stayed a member this long if I hadn't had the creative outlet/inspiration of the other members here on The Community. I suspect the member 'pool' would cycle quite differently if everyone played in the 'original' way.
Kaoori's picture

I've got to read this when

I've got to read this when I'm not on my phone. :_: so interestung!

Haha, that was interesting to

Haha, that was interesting to read (:
Seed's picture

Some of this I knew to begin

Some of this I knew to begin with...But it's all very interesting to read. I actually agree with some of their philosophy (as much of the game should be consistant with the game and within the game as possible) in some places, heh...

Still, it's interesting to see how the ideas have grown.
Unplugged's picture

Terabetha, yes, I think of

Terabetha, yes, I think of this a lot too. Sticking out tongue It sure would be great to temporarily forget the stuff you learned about the forest. I like this kind of hypothesizing.

---

I think reading these quotes gives a taste of what the forest essentially is supposed to be, where it's roots lie, the basic idea. I think this is especially important because a lot of it is now hidden beneath a thick coat of roleplay, and the idea that the forest is in first place ground for roleplay. (it isn't -- at least not in its main intentions. not that roleplay itself is bad. I love roleplaying in the forest)
(and what kind of suggestions would add to the actual experience, and which would detract from it).

Anonymity and lack of control basically, Imagination and intuition, social interaction. I think the interaction part is what intrigues me the most. There's lots of room for exploration there (I wonder what other kind of social actions you could implement, except for the spell casting).

Alone the fact that body language is understood in its basic form is already incredible, and how customs have formed around it (e.g. bowing as a greeting) But what I think is even more interesting is how the community found a way to expand it by combining actions, a thing that was not originally intended by M&A, and how increasingly complex these interactions - with the most simple roots - can get.


Also I think it's important to note the "story" part of The Forest that gets mentioned at some point. I think it's an interesting view, to see not all deer as individuals but as part of one big thing. It would be interesting to play like that, like you're consciously building up a story with the whole forest. In that context I definitely think roleplaying is very much fitting, if it weren't for most of it sharing its place with the community site.

I remember reading a comment from Michael somewhere about the forest being not as much of a "game" as a real-time moving picture.

I think if we, as players, would have abilities to change the forest enviroment itself, if only temporarily, that would strongly contribute to the idea of a "TEF story". Things that come to mind are the early version of disappearing mushrooms quoted above, as well as the Ename Ruin Conversion:
Quote:

Click to see documents and photos
of the Ename Ruin exhibition.
The ruin
(...) In the exhibition visitors could steer a deer through the forest like the online players can. But when they stopped playing and the deer went to sleep, the soul of this visitor escaped and started floating through the forest.

The graveyard
If you found such a soul (a blue glowing orb with sparkles), a new button would appear in your action strip. You could use it to convert this pagan soul. If you, and other users, did a good enough job, by the end of the day, a grave would be erected near the ruin. If you'd failed and the majority of the remaining souls were still unchristened, a pagan idol would show up. Every day of the exhibition, a grave or an idol was added. The size of these depends on the amount of vistors of that day.
http://tale-of-tales.com/TheEndlessForest/ename.html
I wish events like these would occur again.

M&A designing this game with us again adds to this-- it is us who influence the development of the game. (if it weren't for lack of funding)


Lots of food for thought, this game.
WonderfullySarcastic's picture

This was an intriguing and

This was an intriguing and amazingly insightful read! Thank you for wanting to ponder about it, lol. I have concerns about this last quote you've found, about christening pagan souls... I worry that if this were to come to the forest that there would be at least a small amount of tension. I say that remembring losing a friend here on TEFc because he was torn between playing a game with two gods and his own beliefs of one... With religion being hte funny thing it is, things might go a tiny bit awry, that's all.

Awefully short and rather shallow in thinking, but that's my two cents... Still, thank you for posting this journal.
#1354
.
Unplugged's picture

The Endless Forest does

The Endless Forest does indeed contain quite a bit of Christian influence. Heck, the whole pictogram idea took inspiration from Saint Hubert:
Quote:
when they login, this pictogram appears above the head of the deer avatar (in a reference to the legend of Saint Hubert, who was converted to Christianity after encountering a deer with a crucifix between its antlers)

Quote:
Saint Hubert was a nobleman who converted to Christianity around 700 after receiving a vision of a crucifix betweeen the antlers of the stag he was hunting. He became the first bishop of Liège and evangelized the Ardenne region, converting the pagans.


And there's the Twin God statue, which is quite cryptic in itself. Who are these Gods? Is it two seperate gods? Or are the two one entity, similar to the concept of trinity? And if there is a whole area (the Ename Ruins) influenced by Christianity, then why is there a statue obviously pointing towards polytheism?
Quote:
I like the current situation quite a bit, where you're praying to the Twin Gods but you don't actually know whether they are good or evil gods, especially given the presence of Christian symbols, and the fact that you're a deer, a deer with a humanoid face, even.

Why are the statues there in the first place? Were there humans who built it? What did these humans believe in? Were there ever humans in The Forest?
Quote:
An old bridge allows access to the other side of the stream, although for deer, jumping over it is far more convenient. Where are the people who built and used this bridge? Did it serve the monks when they went to mass in the cathedral? When did the humans disappear? Or did they not?
http://tale-of-tales.com/TheEndlessForest/thepond.html

And what story is there behind the Crying Idol? Why does it cry?

While inspiration from religion is obvious, The Forest remains very ambiguous about it, and I think that choice was consciously made to fuel the imagination of the players.

If you're interested, AlisonRobin once made a great blog entry: Archaeology in The Forest [Forest Relics' Possible Real Life Influences]
Starling's picture

I remember someone mentioning

I remember someone mentioning that they could see something written on the bridge.
I've never found it though..
wocio's picture

Oooh I'll follow this

Oooh I'll follow this too...
Really interesting stuff here Smiling
Starling's picture

Quote:In the original design

Quote:
In the original design of the game, 12 deer-years would be compressed in 1 human year. So that your deer would be born, grow up and die over the course of a year. For a week... ... But as you know, we have abandoned these plans long ago, in favor of designing the game with you, the players.


Shortened the quote, but that somehow makes me feel kind of sad. I wish they had stuck to their original idea. Maybeee..
Unplugged's picture

Starling, that also reminds

Starling, that also reminds me of the Dutch (? i think?) quote that turns up at Abiogenesises. Has there ever been a translation of that one?
Mis's picture

Likely dutch, yes. Michael

Likely dutch, yes. Michael and Auriea are dutch too. I can translate it for you but I don't know the quote out of the back of my head.. Lessee if I can find it on youtube? Or you have it on here and I overread it XD
Unplugged's picture

I'm pretty sure I have a

I'm pretty sure I have a screenshot of it somewhere, but with over 5.000 screenshots it's a bit hard to find. 8[ let me see though. Would be great if you could do that Misako.

[e]: Found this on the forums! Do they actually use different poems, or just that one?


[e]: Found this in the same thread:
Quote:
"I feel something like world peace, just as sometimes soldiers, scared to death in their trenches, can feel it, in between two intense salvoes: a sudden calm, the chirping of a bird, the dull falling of a chestnut, the rustle of a deer in the thicket." by Patricia De Martelaere.
http://tale-of-tales.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3809
Starling's picture

Funny how they relate to

Funny how they relate to soldiers, even though it is a quote. I hate/love that aeroplane that flies over because all I can think of is being in a World War battlefield. And if not that, it's still weird because surely a human is flying it, whatever they're doing.

Hmm. Now I have other thoughts. I wonder what year/generation TEF is based on.
Aivilo's picture

I can't remember which thread

I can't remember which thread this was on, but it's one of my favorite quotes regarding the game. If I recall correctly, it was a post regarding difficulty in obtaining a particular set, then losing it and having to wait and work to get the pieces.


Something I think we all forget from time to time.
Kaoori's picture

somewhat offtopic but... an

somewhat offtopic but... an airplane flies over in some abios? o_o
Starling's picture

Yes/no - you don't actually

Yes/no - you don't actually see it. The shadow of one flies over and you can hear it :D
Mis's picture

Oh seems you found it

Oh seems you found it already. XD Yeah, that translation seems about correct. There are I suppose, things one can't translate from one language to the other. Or well, that's how it feels to me. I like the original better, though the english translation isn't wrong. I guess it's in the words.

Like, they translate the word "windstilte" with "calm", which makes sense, though it also means the blowing of the wind stopped. Literally wind-quiet.
I like the title of that book. Nightbook of a sleepless, I'd translate it as.

There's a lot of interesting stuff in these quote's.. It's interesting to read the different generations of pictograms were supposed to contribute to the story of the endless forest, I never looked at it like that before. Somehow it makes it feel like a shame that the second generation is dubbed ugly..
Unplugged's picture

Windstille. :D :D With help

Windstille. :D :D With help of the english translation I can relate most of the words to german. I love nordic languages so much. They sound sooo beautiful. And just everything is wonderful there.
[/off topic gushing]
Hart's picture

Q. What lessons were learned

Q. What lessons were learned from developing your multiplayer game known as The Endless Forest? Do you think you will eventually delve into multiplayer again? Or will you just stick with single player games?

A. One of the consequences of failing to find commercial backing for 8 was our desire to publish a game ourselves. We had already developed the concept and a small prototype of The Endless Forest in response to an art commission from the museum of modern art in Luxembourg. After realizing that we were not going to find funding for the full production, we decided to cut up development of the project [into] several small phases, production of which could be funded through art grants. In order to ensure production and publication, we reduced the scope of the first phase of the game to its bare essentials: a single avatar model in a small environment with a minimal amount of actions.

The first thing we learned from The Endless Forest was that we were actually able to publish a game, by ourselves. I guess we sort of re-invented independent publishing by ourselves, out of necessity, without knowing much about the games industry’s history. We find it extremely important to show our work to an audience. It’s one of the main reasons why started using this medium. We were very happy and proud to have pulled this of. And it set a [precedent] for us: we had figured out a way in which we could create our work, without requiring publisher support.

The second thing we learned from The Endless Forest and that has influenced our work to this day, is that people don’t need a lot of pre-designed structure to amuse themselves. By necessity, the first phase of The Endless Forest was very minimal in terms of interactivity. And thanks to it being multiplayer, we could actually observe what people were doing in the game. It came as a real revelation to us, to see how creative players were with the limited amount of gameplay. They invented whole new games before our very eyes and made up stories about the game world, etc. This ultimately lead to our abandoning the original design of the game in favour of simply collaborating with the players on what to implement next.

The Endless Forest is incredibly successful to this very day. So much so that we can’t really advertise it out of fear that our feeble technology wouldn’t be able to cope with any more players. There’s a thriving community around the game that not only plays the game but produces all sorts of fan art and fan fiction too. [As a developer, it's really nice to know] that your players are right there, having fun with your work. Whenever we feel a bit down, we just dip into the Forest and have a little run around with our deer. It’s very relaxing.

Multiplayer games require constant care, and The Endless Forest being a free game – thanks to the continuing support of the Mudam museum in Luxembourg – doesn’t make this easier. So I don’t think we’ll be starting up another MMO any time soon. It’s a very demanding thing for a small studio. That being said, we do have plans for a two-player online game. We will be working on that next year.

--

Q. Backing up to The Endless Forest for a brief moment, another staff member wanted to know two things: Where did the idea for the game come from? And why do the characters have human faces attached to animal bodies à la Seaman?

A. The idea came to us already in the train ride home from Luxembourg where we had been commissioned by the museum after giving a presentation about the web-based art we were doing before making games. This ride goes straight through the Ardennes, an area of Belgium with wooded mountains. So we were simply inspired by the view out of the train window. But there was also an underlying thought. We had been doing a weekly web-based performance called Wirefire. We really loved being able to join up with people and perform our live art (a bit like online audiovisual dj-ing). But we were frustrated by the fact that this art work was dead without our presence. People could only enjoy it, really, when we were there. So The Endless Forest was a way for us to have a piece in which people could gather but that could also function without our presence. We simply enhance the experience when we are there, during the so-called Abiogenesis festivals we organise in the game.

The deer character was designed by our friend Lina Kusaite. Originally we had envisioned the game to feature natural looking deer. In fact, our very first prototypes have real deer in them. So when Lina presented her first sketches, we tried to discourage her and told her we wanted regular deer in our game. But she persisted and we decided to give it a try, to see how the players would respond. We ended up being quite happy with the design, because it adds an immediate feeling of wonder and mystery and it contributes to the kinds of narratives that you can make up about the place.

Source
Unplugged's picture

Veeeeeeee that's an

Veeeeeeee that's an incredible find, and I'm saying that before I even read it.
*pap pap* Yeeesssss
MissButterflyCaught's picture

(No subject)

<3
[right]

?



ShikaTale's picture

On the first quote about 1

On the first quote about 1 year, I am not understanding

So we can only play the deer for 1 year then have to re-create it?
Aivilo's picture

"So we can only play the deer

"So we can only play the deer for 1 year then have to re-create it?"

No, they dropped that plan a long time ago (as it says in the second quote). The deer basically live forever, unless the player decides to stop playing the deer.
shaku's picture

Love these >>

Love these >>

Laiia's picture

I guess I should track this.

I guess I should track this. Thank you for showing them !

Avatar & signature by Shimmyshimmy. ♥

-Bookmarks-

-Bookmarks-



Unplugged's picture

I just found this and it

I just found this and it reminded me of pictograms, so I decided to share... Click picture for higher res.

here

Unplugged that is an epic

Unplugged that is an epic find, thank you for sharing that!
Unplugged's picture

Quote: You know, another

Quote:

You know, another thing that struck me just now, while playing, is that it's not so much ways to communicate that I feel are required but just things to do. It seems to me that players are trying to entertain each other (saves us, game designers, a lot of trouble ). I recognize this from my own behaviour in other multiplayer games as well. I just want to show off or act silly, just to amuse the people I'm playing with. And they return the favour.
Even errors can be highly amusing in this type of playing (saves the programmers a bunch of headaches as well! ). This is, e.g., why we decided to use collision checking not to avoid obstacles but to show pretty effects. It's a virtual world: it's fun to be able to go and stand inside of a tree or another deer.

http://tale-of-tales.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=359&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30
Echosong's picture

(No subject)

<3