Sure, it's what people can do, but to do stuff like this over a non-objective game is just silly, I think. This game is trying to support peacefulness, community, and getting along, and it's getting to the point where people just can't curb their dislike for other players anymore.

You aren't alone. I have always regarded TEF in much the same way you describe - a sandbox. I could log on anytime and relax as I led Yorres in his appointed rounds of the forest. But as time passed, I noticed some cliquish behavior from certain deer. I don't feel the need to name names, but there was also some fairly disrespectful behavior in-game that one would have thought TEF's limitations on communication/interaction would have made impossible; as the penis-fawn debacle showed us, you can never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups. Some of this misbehavior has naturally rolled over onto the forums, which is always a mess of insignificant biographical data, debates about quitting, and threats to RD, not to mention the tiresome pairing off of "mates" and the anguished laments of those whose in-game affections remain unrequited.

In short, the whole thing started to seem a little High School Drama Club, if you catch my drift. The preliminary findings of the recent survey clearly show a handful of reasons why.

But I had to remember that the reason I started playing was the open ended nature of the game itself. Many people who used to play constantly now hardly ever or never play, and new players are arriving every day. I remember reading a post on the old forums by a player who had been around since the forest was half the size it is now. She wrote that she felt like she didn't know any of the deer any longer, and that whenever she logged on all she saw were unfamiliar pictos. I was sympathetic - I felt the same way but for the opposite reason, as I was too new to know anyone.
The forest itself is endless, eternal, changed only by the will of M&A. But the deer who cycle through are always changing, their games and socialization always evolving. The older players who have been around a while want to spend all of their time with their old friends, because many of them may not even be playing by this time next year.

It seems difficult to really make a "place" for your deer, to establish yourself in this community, but it is really only the transient nature of the TEF community itself. My solution for Yorres was to keep him solitary, an acquaintance to many but friend to few. This allows me to enjoy and play with all of the deer in the forest without having to worry so much about becoming embroiled in any "reindeer games", so to speak. While it's lonley on the edges, it's given me an opportunity to learn more about the TEF community, which makes me feel closer to everyone in it.

________________________________________________
Mystery within mystery, the gateway of manifold secrets...

I agree with some things! I know that i had a lot more fun when i started out as a faun. (i saw the Penis-Faun too, but I laghed, and there was another one. they wouldnt stop bowing to me, it realy did scare me.).

But yes when one deer and I are spell spaming, and that deer sees a friend. That deer just drops and leavs. it makes me mad, and it happens all of the time.

One thing is I like to have a mate, its good that there is one deer that you know will never turn on you. Its happend to me before.

And how come you can't log on !

Also, I know that roleplay is pure fiction, I don't see a problem with that as long as people don't get all upset about it, and I don't think anyone has so far.

Jadine: Ever since I moved back to school, and used the school's network, I can't connect to TEF anymore.

I agree with Fenqua

HEY, IM 12 XDDD Which surprises some people cuz apparently I act older, but yeah...XD

-- Dannii <3

I guess I don't think respect for people has age limits. *shrug* Even 10 year olds can have respect for each other, and most people here are at least 12. I didn't mean to imply that younger players should act like adults, just that they should hold a basic level of respect for others.

I haven't read all of the comments so excuse me if I sound like I'm not participating. o:

But you stole the words straight from my mouth. I haven't been visiting this site or the forums near so much as I used to because there's just too much to look at and I can't keep up with it--especially all of this lovesick lovehappy posts. Mates are just about a whole 'nother story, but it's getting mixed up with other stuff and I just can't find a normal, happy post anymore. (Granted nothing is normal. I just liked how it was when the community were smaller and knew each other better. It's growing now and that's the good and bad thing right there. More people means more personalities, and some might like that personality, some might not, and then we get all up about it.)

Apologies, but I have to point out SS. She does not speak our language. She does not understand the concept of the game. And we bash her for it. It's almost like she has a disability and here we all are laughing at it. I felt kindly and sweet about her and drew her a picture. She seemed happy about that. And I know she spams the picture thread with images she doesn't really create herself, but she wouldn't know any better. It's not like there are restrictions as to what you can and can't post on the picture page anyway. Maybe if someone told her that this isn't a Photobucket then she would understand; use a translator. I think we're just growing lazy as a community, and we've given up on caring and helping people. (Besides, M&A just deleted all of her pictures. I haven't looked into it but they might have banned her from the site too, although I may be thinking too hard about that one; I can't see them doing that.)

And I had to come back an edit this to rant *my opinion* on mates and does.

I am a doe. I had a mate.
It was a foolish mistake for me to have both. Being a doe is just like getting a one-way ticket to a nudist beach. You're localizing the idea of being female. I'm okay with that as long as you can handle it, just like 21 does. She's a doe and it stops there. But some people make a doe just because they want to find love over the internet with pixelled images. -shrugs- Fine with me. But know this: do you ever honestly hear about internet relationships that work out? The mate I had was kind and talented, all that good stuff, and one day just upright left because she had her own religious views and felt that TEF was getting too addicting. Fool I was I moped about it and begged her to stay because I felt, at the time, that she was the only reason I had to play. But she left. And I'm still here. And I can tell you that it is a hell of a lot easier to just go through and read posts and romp around as Her in the game without having the pressure of wondering whowhatmatesdoes and stuff. Now I understand why Michael made this a stag-only place without the intention of putting in some sort of dating thing. We did that ourselves.

As for role-playing, I do think there is a limit to it. It's like putting on a Halloween costume. You can have fun with it and be in character without creeping people out too much. But there is a time where, if, say, you wear a Scream outfit and run around with a chainsaw or something, they go all out and honestly feel like killing people. I could have used a better example but that's how it is here. You have a deer and that's that. You can give it a personality and a look, just like your Halloween costume. And you can play as that character. You can even be a grumpy mean deer. But there's a line that's drawn thick, bold, and clear that some people just hop right on over. You can make that grumpymean deer an enemy of people if you can't handle it. Some people that don't even know about these sites will not know that that person is just pretending. Granted I have the Phantom who is my "grumpymean" deer, but I never play him. And if on the extreme rare occasion I do, I know not to go up and in everyone's face with rears because it's not going to help you heal any. I just sit him down and watch other people play.

But now I think I'm going a little off-hand and confusing, as if I'm talking to myself more. D: I guess I'm trying to say that I've participated in drama. I was one of those people that got flamed and flamed back when the mate debate was up and about. I was someone that made a doe in the time where people were discussing how it would end up horribly. I was someone that went ahead and dated another pixeldeer for my own enjoyment. And in the end, the people I turned against were right. Things went wrong. Michael and Auriea were right. I should rid of Her, I should make her a stag and hope people follow my example, but it's not worth the effort. There are some people that stick by their character and love them, just as I love Her, even if she is just a big mental reminder of what not to be. But I can't kill her off and I can't change her sex. It's just as simple as that. And I know I'm all wrong about this, I'm going screwy; and why not? Everyone else is. If you can't beat them, join them. And that's about the worst path I could tread right now but I've taken it for too long to turn back. I've shunned even myself and I think that's why I act so moody when the topic of how I'm such a great and talented artist comes up. I sit there punishing myself because I feel I deserve it. And I do. It's because of this here paragraph. I've set fire to Michael's peaceful image of a happy forest and watched it burn in triumph because I stomped all over their forums with prissy opinions of mine. I'm burning myself in the process. I'm only now hoping people will forgive and cool me down, because I won't be doing so any time soon. -RANTRANTEMO- SORRYLOL.

I still love The Endless Forest. It's just that...it's becoming an old friend now. I've lost my little fling with it; I don't even touch the forest itself anymore. But I will not leave. I just hope we all raise our chins a bit and realize what's childish and what's mature.

<3

I've felt this way for a long time, but I've never had the courage to speak up. I knew I would be ignored. To be honest, I was planning on leaving this week, quietly, because of the way the Forest is now.

It's not the mates thing that bothers me. It's a complicated, layered thing that bothers me. I've been here almost a year and I have never seen the Forest this way. The way people are treating each other, the games... Yes, there were times when the Forest had some drama and some cliques, but now... I find it funny how I used to complain about before.

I hate speaking honestly but here we go ---

I just refuse to see the Forest as a roleplaying medium. I don't know whether people are causing drama intentionally or as characters, and if it's the latter I will be - while not surprised - more disappointed than before.

That's a long story Her, but I've read everything. And I agree with most of it. Though, I like Fenqua being a doe. It adds more to her character and I like to write about that. I don't use her for dating or something, she and Skokey accidentally became mates. I never planned it in the first place, a mate didn't really matter to me. But it happened, and it's fun.
But I can't understand people who MUST have one and really go search for one. That's not what the game is about. But I have to say, some pairings are really cute XD

So I don't think it's wrong, I think it's fun. As long as you don't overreact it. Like the topics on Love at the community site. Those are fun and interesting to read, as long as you don't take them to seriously.

I used the word fun a lot o_o

I hope you get my point, 'cause I'm bad at explaining x.x


To pray is to believe, to believe is to purify one's soul

Not Timbers mate, no. If you looked hard enough you'd find who but the name is but it's unimportant so I won't say. <3 As for you, though, I ..suppose I should wish you the best, although I don't see a difference between mates and friends anymore. Not to pop your happyballoon or anything, but it's going to deflate anyway: it's not going to be "fun" forever.

However, I am with Laruna. I'm kind of losing interest in RPing as deer hence I never play as my other two characters I own. I play as Her, who is me; I don't rp her. I'll probably rid of Porcelain and Phantom in time because I -never- play as them. And althought it sounds like it's the mate and love wave that's just hit is what bothers me, it's everything else, too. Like Laruna said: it's the layers. If you peel them away you will eventually hit the core which is full of what it should be, and that is peace, art, and happiness. Now it's covered with dirt. And I don't want to get my hands dirty trying to find that treasure. Instead I sit back and watch others continue to cover it while waiting for someone to bring along that shovel.

***Just clarifying myself on what I said, I in no way meant to bash does and mates, I was just stating that's when I first noticed people were starting to fight and bash each other.

xD The comments are coming in like a flood now, I can't keep up! <3 I'm not trying to harm anyone, I was just stating my opinion. Does don't bother me, as said; it's just the does that go around making lovesick entries and repeatedly stating how they're single and want a mate that make me dig my nails into my arm. To those that have beautiful female deer that can handle a healthy and not over-the-top paparazii mate, then I congratulate you, but nothing more.

I enjoy role-playing, actually. I do so over messenger all the time with my friends. And again, if you can handle it, go for it. I congratulate you again and am happy to see you enjoy it. :D It's just that some people aren't able to hold their own load of characters and get them mixed up. I believe we should all just have one deer, just like we all have our one heart. < /cheeseylol> But it is true, no matter how tacky it is. You can't shove two more hearts or however many other characters you have inside your chest without harming it in some way. I can't keep up with my own friend's deer's pictograms because they have so many. Michael is Michael, Jen is Jen, Corg is Rev. Jelly. I don't want to be "Her is HerPorcelainPhantom", and that might just be me. But where TEF is going I'm concerned. It's like riding in a car with a drunk driver. There's no guarantee you'll have a safe ride, and it certainly won't be fun. You hold on to the handles as they speed along hoping some impossible stuff that isn't enjoyable. I'm someone in that car who hopelessly prays they'll get home safe.

And by home, I mean ....I don't know, really. I want to say I miss the old times, way back when I was just Allice, but you can't look on the past, can you? You can't go back to the past, so...I guess, really, I'm just someone sitting in the car that takes up room. I don't know what I'm doing there.

Exactly, Dannii. :U You're just discussing, you're not annoying anyone. <3 If anyone's doing that it's probably me with my numerous over-written posts. They're not getting me or the community anywhere. xD

i agree fully with Fenqua. mates are fun, as long as you dont get too obsessed with it. i didnt think Skokey would have a mate at all, but look what happened? and Fulu, well... its kinda weird, but it wasnt really my decision to give her a crush, someone else kinda decided for me.

however, i can see where you guys are coming from. i personally, am getting sick of this Fulu/Darcy/Wyvern thing. ive already gotten Fulu over it, but the others seem to enjoy this little situation. i kindof want it to be over already. im not trying to flame Darcy or Wyvern, theyre just playing parts, like they should. they dont take it seriously, though, so why should anyone else? its just a silly little thing that came up and we decided to have some fun with it. Darcy seems to be taking a little longer than needed, though. my personal opinion anyway.

but thats just an example. i recall i wrote something about the Darcy/Wyvern/Fulu situation, and not long after, you wrote this. it made me feel a little stupid, so i took it down. i do agree with you on some levels. the drama gets pretty annoying, but we are people. and this situation about bashing others, well, you know... while they are ruining some things for us, that doesnt mean we should yell at them 24/7. theyre people too, they can be reasoned with.

and so i add my two cents to all yours, so that makes like.... 28 or something XD
---

The Butterfly
The Bird
The Watcher

I know that this is a controversial stance on the issue, but I have thought for a while now that having a place to discuss what happens in-game (stories, roleplay, characters, etc) is what fuels the drama. I even sent a message to Michael with my point of view, adding that the Forest would be more relaxing if the community site (and maybe the Life forum) was wiped out altogether. Guess what? Michael agreed that such an action would help, but he still wants to make it work, hoping that people will grow up enough to get along.

Michael and Auriea make the final judgment, but I think we're better off just being straight deer in the Forest. When it was like that, all that really mattered was having a good time, participating in beautiful digital art, and bouncing ideas for the Forest around with bug reports sprinkled in.

http://endlessforestfun.blogspot.com/

I find it interesting that such a short entry that is essentially a criticism of certain aspects of this forum has engendered such a lively discussion of the community at large, including gender roles and the nature of role playing. These are the things we should be discussing on the forums.

________________________________________________
Mystery within mystery, the gateway of manifold secrets...

Let me rephrase what I said in the beginning post: The roleplaying bit doesn't bother me at all, I think it adds something extra to the game if a player so chooses to do so. The "drama" I refer to is what is taking place out of character, when people are saying hurtful things to each other and just being nasty in general (for instance, there was a diary a while back where things got a little off topic and a few players started talking about how annoying someone else was, knowing that she either wouldn't read or understand it. Plus, mean things have also been said to this player's face, and I think that's just uncalled for.)

I'm not saying that SS is innocent here, but it seems like she's trying to redeem herself recently and yet some people are still going way out of line and giving her crap about everything, when a simple explanation on how things work is all that is in order. And I know some people have done this, which is good. A language barrier is difficult to overcome, which probably makes things more frustrating.

@Laruna: Halogen would cry if you left! D: xD

I definitely see where everyone's coming from.. all I have to add are silly things. xD

I rather like the Community Site. I have a tendency to filter through things, so I don't waste my time. Seeing characters being developed is fun for me, and I enjoy seeing some of the journals and RPish type things (especially the well-written, artistic ones). Halogen has a personality too, but it only exists here and in my mind. In the forest, Halogen's just me. I'll play with anyone-new or old, friend or nameless, adult or fawn-but I do see people trying to keep their character going in game, which I think is over the top.

And some of the childish things going on... Well, I don't know how to stop that exactly. To ignore it is one option, and a good one if you don't have time or you don't want to waste it, but step one to fixing a community is involvement. Fledermaus's blog and the posts on it are a very good start to that. One person with a shovel probably wouldn't be able to dig through the dirt as fast as it filled the hole back up, but many people, even if they only used their hands, would be able to find the treasure beneath. Truthfully, it's up to the community whether or not it wants to be fixed.

Actually, I also like the community site, and I would be disappointed to see it closed down. It's a pity, though, that people can't just ignore someone else and stop something from becoming drama right then. I'm just thinking about what I think is best for the community as a whole. If I were just a selfish prick who didn't give a flying rat's rear end about the community, I'd probably just be a drama spectator.

As long as there is no *mature* moderation of the community site, this drama BS will keep coming up as often as it is now. Also, drama from forums and the community site bleeds into the Forest, and then people come back whining about how so-and-so did such-and-such, when it is really no big deal in the first place.

I still think that if the community site can't be moderated for drama, it's no good for the Forest as a piece of game-art. As I said, I am thinking about what is good for the community as a whole, not my personal comfort at all. As Darcy said, I could just up and leave the community site (quietly) if it really bothered me.

That's just my opinion, though. Take it or leave it.

http://endlessforestfun.blogspot.com/

It's not aimed at anyone. I'm just giving my opinion, that's all. <3

http://endlessforestfun.blogspot.com/