I'll just leave these here.



Tracing's okay if you're a big shot, everyone.
FairyClock's picture

These are very nice. I bet it

These are very nice. I bet it makes for great anatomy practice!
alcinda's picture

Stirring shit up is okay if

Stirring shit up is okay if you're on a secret account, everyone.

It's called using a

It's called using a Reference. They weren't traced. Just stop with the damn drama. I draw using References as well so you could paste MY art over photos and it'd match. So just, stop..
cloudandis's picture

Apparently a lot of things

Apparently a lot of things are okay these days <->

((something tells me commenting is just feeding a little somebody who lives under a bridge ;D ))
Sabel, Sam

Image © Alhnna
OrinocoFlow's picture

It's just reference. Not

It's just reference. Not tracing.
You do not have a soul. You ARE a soul. You have a body.
~ C.S. Lewis
Faustt's picture

Hun, those are references, a

Hun, those are references, a lot of artists uses photographs for poses in their artwork for their characters.

If we're going to start

If we're going to start pointing fingers about referencing and tracing, give me a bit, I'll find some really good ones. There's also the case of design thieves too. Should I throw them in as well?
FairyClock's picture

Is this a drama

Is this a drama thing?
Seriously?
Did you know Art schooling heavily practices trace and models?
Almost all of my first sketches were me looking at my fawn and drawing her.
If that's a problem then haul me away. I seem to have stolen somebody's smile. lol

I honestly thought somebody was just sharing how they got their sketch done. omg
XD
Sighthoundlady's picture

Yeah not sure what you are

Yeah not sure what you are seeking to prove here? I use reference? No big secret? I’ve always been pretty open about that. People ask me how I draw. References! References, references references. I spend a lot of time collecting them and studying them to get every aspect of what I draw as anatomically realistic as possible. How does a hoof look from this angle? And elbow from here? It’s lazy to do otherwise in my opinion. Take the time to research it. I could post up art I’ve done that has 10-15 references for one figure. I want my stuff to be accurate. So have fun looking them all up, hope that’s a productive use of your time. Maybe your art will improve too! ^_^

I will say however I do not reference the drawings of others. Don’t want to copy their mistakes. I go to the source, I’ll mess it up myself thanks. And I don’t trace. Sorry.

Edit: You know, I just had to add how amusing I find that the people who choose to take pot shots at me always do it on secret accounts. Hmmm.

That's some awfully tight

That's some awfully tight referencing. To my knowlege you aren't even supposed to ref that hard.

Tracing some aspects of a photo is okay. But when it's this close, you have to wonder. Would you draw us an unreferenced picture?

e; And of course I'm on a secret account. You people can be animals sometimes. And that goes for everyone on the comm, myself included.

removed because it was

removed because it was insincere.
Toya's picture

Oy. If I worked with digital

Oy. If I worked with digital art Id be overlaying/pseudo-tracing reference images shamelessly. I consider it one of the strong points of digital art, the ability to use layers, and have your ref right there! Eyeballing is hard, but it doesn't make an artist.

Iv seen tons of photo-realistic entirely accurate works done by skill alone that aren't very impressive. Why? Because sometimes they can simply bore me by their flat unemotional lack of creativity. Its not the refs or the tracing or the not tracing or the skill of needing or not needing any of the above that makes an artist.

Good taste makes an artist.

That means taking something from your mind, or from a reference, or from your ***, and making it beautiful, provoking, or interesting. Even without a ton of skill, you can tell if someone has good taste, you can see it in the heart of the art.

I don't know HOW to explain this. But I know I am right.
treacherous's picture

"Aren't even supposed to ref

"Aren't even supposed to ref that hard"? Really? There's no set rules to how you reference or trace things and everybody has their own boundaries for what's acceptable. I personally have no problem with anyone unless they claim to have drawn something they traced or referenced from another person's artwork. That aside, the art you posted is pretty clearly referenced.
Fincayra's picture

There's a big difference

There's a big difference between referencing the motion of an animal in a photograph than referencing - or in such a case it would be copying - another artist's rendition of an animal's pose. Come on.
alcinda's picture

Quote:To my knowlege you

Quote:
To my knowlege you aren't even supposed to ref that hard.

Eh, what? You can ref however hard you want as long as you're not blatantly copying someone else's artwork. I don't even see why you think this is a problem worthy enough to bring to the community's attention. Just seems like an attempt to slander Sight.

Not getting involved in this,

Not getting involved in this, but I will say: Don't force people into this who don't need to be involved. Find it really immature and inconsiderate that anyone would drag others into a position to prove a point. In this case, people's art.

Artists do life drawings by

Artists do life drawings by relentlessly studying and subsequently learning the forms of what they wish to draw, not copying them. They have their reference before them, but they use their knowledge to convey it.

Tracing may be a learning tool in some cases, but you probably shouldn't post it. Eventually it will impede your learning. It's like copying off someone else's test.

This isn't about tracing another person's art, which is even more wrong. But some of the art I have seen from this person is so hyperreal in some places and awkward and off in other places in the very same picture that it makes me think it's an incomplete trace more than a reference. There's no learning going on, just copying and then lazily slapping on parts we don't know.

I fully encourage the use of reference. I enjoy sight's art because some of her characters are nice eyecandy and her backgrounds are stunning. But such a close 'reference,' as you all are insisting it is, is sort of questionable. I'm not seeing 10-15 references used here, I'm seeing one traced, or so heavily referenced that it could make someone think such.

My point is learning. While art comes in many forms, skill is what makes it truly great. Dedication to your craft.

If tracing counts as dedication these days, I am sorely disappointed.

Quote:Don't force people into

Quote:
Don't force people into this who don't need to be involved.

Pretty sure this WHOLE thread pulled ONE PERSON into the light. So why not expose everyone?

Quote:
Find it really immature and inconsiderate that anyone would drag others into a position to prove a point.

Also pretty sure its immature for this thread to have been made but I don't see you complaining about that.

Quote:
In this case, people's art.

See my other points.
treacherous's picture

So in other words these

So in other words these particular drawings are tight references and that's okay sometimes...and it's not up to you whether or not people want to showcase art that was tightly referenced. Frankly you can blow it out your ass, words coming from behind an anonymous account you created just to call out one person for what a large portion of the online art community does is pretty cowardly and holds little weight. Pretty sure nobody gives a shit.

Quote:Pretty sure this WHOLE

Quote:
Pretty sure this WHOLE thread pulled ONE PERSON into the light. So why not expose everyone?

I applaud the maturity.
Fincayra's picture

Quote:I applaud the

Quote:
I applaud the maturity.


Oh yes. Standing ovation.

I don't see you doing a

I don't see you doing a better job. My point still stands, sorry to say.
Toya's picture

Quote:" But some of the art I

Quote:" But some of the art I have seen from this person is so hyperreal in some places and awkward and off in other places in the very same picture that it makes me think it's an incomplete trace more than a reference"

I keep thinking to myself I should not get involved... But as a working artist, I have to speak up on this point.

I work in traditional mediums, as I alluded to before. I honestly cant trace in most situations... I suppose I could use transfer paper and press very hard and get a smudgy outline down or something. So I definitely can speak on this issue.

Anyhow! My point: I have good days and bad days. Sometimes I can look at a picture and it will flow through me and onto the paper as if I was imbued by the muse herself, other times... I draw poop. Seriously though, poop. And sometimes I still show it off because I still may be proud of -part- of it, and I pray that no one tears apart my mistakes unkindly.

Skill does make any craft great, but I happen to be human, and I strive to "make friends with my mistakes" rather than hide them. A master has failed more times than others have even tried, right?

(P.S. how do you guys do that nifty quoting you do???)
alcinda's picture

Quote:Artists do life

Quote:
Artists do life drawings by relentlessly studying and subsequently learning the forms of what they wish to draw, not copying them. They have their reference before them, but they use their knowledge to convey it.

Tracing may be a learning tool in some cases, but you probably shouldn't post it. Eventually it will impede your learning. It's like copying off someone else's test.

This isn't about tracing another person's art, which is even more wrong. But some of the art I have seen from this person is so hyperreal in some places and awkward and off in other places in the very same picture that it makes me think it's an incomplete trace more than a reference. There's no learning going on, just copying and then lazily slapping on parts we don't know.

I fully encourage the use of reference. I enjoy sight's art because some of her characters are nice eyecandy and her backgrounds are stunning. But such a close 'reference,' as you all are insisting it is, is sort of questionable. I'm not seeing 10-15 references used here, I'm seeing one traced, or so heavily referenced that it could make someone think such.

My point is learning. While art comes in many forms, skill is what makes it truly great. Dedication to your craft.

If tracing counts as dedication these days, I am sorely disappointed.

Sorry, I don't buy any of that. You posted this topic with the intention of slandering someone. "Tracing's okay if you're a big shot, everyone."

You can believe what you want about how "lazy" it is to reference a pose from the internet, but don't try to drag Sight's name through the mud and then act high and mighty when people come to her defense.

Quote:You can believe what

Quote:
You can believe what you want about how "lazy" it is to reference a pose from the internet, but don't try to drag Sight's name through the mud and then act high and mighty when people come to her defense.


And apparently it's okay to do so because that's the topic that was made. We should applaud the maturity on that too.

I bet if any other member of

I bet if any other member of the community traced, you'd be all over them in a heartbeat.

I'll leave it at that.
Fincayra's picture

Quote:And apparently it's

Quote:
And apparently it's okay to do so because that's the topic that was made. We should applaud the maturity on that too.


What, you're saying those who're here to defend Sight because she is under blatant and unreasonable attack by some coward behind a fake name is immature? Good god, we really are a community of animals, aren't we?

Quote:
I bet if any other member of the community traced, you'd be all over them in a heartbeat.


Traced ARTWORK. Yeah, we'd be all over that like flies on a corpse. This is an entirely different matter, and it's purely because you deliberately targeted one person. Not the majority for heavy referencing, but one person in particular. It was an attack and you damn well know it.
cloudandis's picture

Calm down everyone, just

Calm down everyone, just please. Arguing isn't going to help. Yeah I'm a hypocrite, I know. But we're getting no where.

As far as I have seen from sight's live streams, she never traces nor does she steal what she draws and displays. She may heavily reference, but she is no art thief. I deal with art theft on a daily basis on deviant art, and I know how to spot one. I don't care if that's unbelievable, and if you want I can post a link to my deviant art group. here it is if you want it;
http://artthiefannihilators.deviantart.com


Also, I do agree that the intention of this post was to call someone out, not to simply "ask them" about the issue. She is big in this community for a reason- she's been on here a long time, made a crap ton of friends, and people have seen what she can do and how she does it. THe fact that you so blatantly decided to call out someone you don't even know in public, rather than being mature and taking it into perhaps, a private blog or inviting them to a Skype chat is ridiculous. If you had kept the matter private, you wouldn't be getting so much backlash.

I can't ask you to apologize or revoke your claims because that's not my job, not that I even have one here, but what I can say is that if you are going to accuse someone with strong ties to the community who has proven she can do her own art, then you better expect an ass kicking.
Sabel, Sam

Image © Alhnna
alcinda's picture

Quote:I bet if any other

Quote:
I bet if any other member of the community traced, you'd be all over them in a heartbeat.

I'll leave it at that.

Nah, not really. Unless they are copying someone else's work, nobody cares.
Toya's picture

Nevermind.

Nevermind.

Quote:I bet if any other

Quote:
I bet if any other member of the community traced, you'd be all over them in a heartbeat.

I'll leave it at that.


I wouldn't do that honestly, at the very least not on the community. The mature way to do things is why talking through it privately.

Quote:
What, you're saying those who're here to defend Sight because she is under blatant and unreasonable attack by some coward behind a fake name is immature? Good god, we really are a community of animals, aren't we?


I am not calling anyone immature per say. I suppose I misunderstood Pandoras then if you put it that way. I was under the impression she was justifying this thread. My apologies then, because that isn't how I meant to come across. I'm also defending Sight, and posting those pictures I was posting the same thing. Suppose that was immature in a way. Only human.

E: I removed them.
Aivilo's picture

Quote:I bet if any other

Quote:
I bet if any other member of the community traced, you'd be all over them in a heartbeat.

I'll leave it at that.









alcinda's picture

@Aivilo ur garbage brahh

@Aivilo

ur garbage brahh

If you want me to point out

If you want me to point out more people, Misako has traced too. On stream, even. Unfortunately I have no screenshots, but it may be in the stream logs, if she saved them.

Also, all of Sight's saved streams seem to start after the lineart. I wonder why.

pretty sure no one is saying

pretty sure no one is saying to call more people out. Really that was unnecessary just like this whole blog really...
Fincayra's picture

Nah, I don't want you

Nah, I don't want you pointing more fingers. I want you to shut up so I can go to bed. You've got me too hyped up on stupid drama, though. Thanks a lot, Moon moon. :C
alcinda's picture

(No subject)

Quote:If you want me to point

Quote:
If you want me to point out more people, Misako has traced too. On stream, even. Unfortunately I have no screenshots, but it may be in the stream logs, if she saved them.


Actually no. But it seems you're targeting Sight and her friends.

Classy.

Quote:
Also, all of Sight's saved streams seem to start after the lineart. I wonder why.


I know plenty of artists who start after lineart (just go to Deviant Art). The sketch and lining part is (as I have heard it), the most boring part to stream.

And frankly, she at least streams at all. How many artists don't? What do you say about that when it comes to their art?
Mjrn's picture

Wow. Seriously thought this

Wow. Seriously thought this kind of drama was done and away with. If the person who made this blog is the person who did it the last time, I won't be surprised. Though that was ages ago, so who knows.

Regardless, tracing someone else's artwork is one thing. Tracing a photograph is another. In fact, I've seen tutorials here and there that mention tracing lines and whatnot. It also helps to trace if you're either starting out drawing or coming back from not drawing in a long time. It helps you to learn/relearn where bodies curve and the like.

I personally prefer not to trace unless it's a difficult or new pose/angle and I need to figure out how to get the angles and positioning right. Even then, I get apprehensive because of topics like this.

There have been times though too, where I've heavily referenced something, without tracing (Literally just drawing and looking at the photo a lot.), and the end product still comes out looking eerily similar to the photograph that was referenced. Most likely because I'm a perfectionist, and if even the slightest thing is off I get annoyed.

All that said, if you had not hidden behind an anonymous account, I could at least give you one respect point for not being a chicken. But right at this point, anything you say is pretty much in through one ear and out the other to me.
Account previously Mjrn, returned to Veedeer.

^ So much for maturity. e;

^ So much for maturity.
e; meant Alcinda's post there. Man, you guys are on this like flies on a corpse in a totally different way. How weird. I'll reply to the others in a second.
Fincayra's picture

We fight immaturity with

We fight immaturity with immaturity, Moon Moon. It's the way of life.

GOODNIGHT NOW.

Maaybe ppl who traace theree

Maaybe ppl who traace theree iis a heell for theem wheere theyyy areee forcced too freeehand
alsoo ennnjoy thiis ostriichhh

Toya's picture

Emu. <3

Emu. <3
alcinda's picture

Quote:^ So much for

Quote:
^ So much for maturity.
e; meant Alcinda's post there. Man, you guys are on this like flies on a corpse in a totally different way. How weird. I'll reply to the others in a second.

Okay, posting again. I nod

Okay, posting again.

I nod to a lot of your points, Mjrn. You word them better than I can. And like I said, I'm only hiding behind an anon account because I know some people would come make my life hell if I posted on my main. Though I'm sure that those people already know my main account.

I didn't make this to be a private matter. It's for the community to see who they brown-nose up to so much.

I still think it's traced, and for an artist in her position, who draws left and right and is so strongly admired by everyone and their mother on the sole count of their art, I think that it's wrong. If she was out of practice with drawing or barely knew how to draw, I would be more lenient.

and kiopeza das an emu u silly willy
Heartstrings's picture

I must be stopped.


I must be stopped.

Toya's picture

ohdeargods I think the late

ohdeargods I think the late hour and absurity of this has just tipped me over the edge. I cannot stop laughing at Alcinda. Im helpless here.

--------

Um... Okay... um... the point: *giggles*

I think this whole thing about artistic integrity is an excellent discussion to be had, nothing wrong with airing our views, but it should not have been had at the expense of Sight. Artists become lauded because they are prolific and persistent enough in a community to be recognized. There are TONS of excellent artists here, and not even a smidgen of them get the attention they deserve, true, but I still cheer for those who have made enough of an impression to glean praise from the masses.

Brown nosing is such a mean term. I believe sight has earned her popularity through more than just what she draws. She is an active member in the community, right? RP/gifts/comments/feedback. etc...
OrinocoFlow's picture

Lets ignore it to be honest.

Lets ignore it to be honest. Its kinda silly to just keep trying to fight this..its terribly rude yes but acknowledging them will only make it worse as we have seen
You do not have a soul. You ARE a soul. You have a body.
~ C.S. Lewis

WHaaat a beutttifulll

WHaaat a beutttifulll peaaCOCK

Active within her group,

Active within her group, sure. Not many other places from what I can tell.

If you guys want to stop, you can stop.

Thank you for continuing to fill the thread with pretty birds, kiopeza~