April 15, 2013 - 8:28am — Meadows
Nnrgh tired question... I was thinking about some stuff, and it led to something that I've noticed; you usually don't see a whole lot of character art with their pictos above their heads. I don't usually bother drawing them myself, but it did make me wonder.
How do you all view pictograms? Like out of game, say how a lot of characters actually look very different from in-game avatars, for instance even having hair; when you think of what they 'actually' look like, do you see their pictos as hovering over their heads? Even if your character is special, like keeping it's picto in a black glob under a hat or something do you view other people's characters as naturally having pictos? Or do you consider them as more of an in-game identification feature?
And while I'm on the subject, how do you associate the picto with the character? I mean besides memorizing which one belongs to which deer. Do you view their picto and name they're called as separate, maybe with one being their true name? Do you consider them being one and the same, like the name they are called being the verbal pronunciation of that picto (And how would that work with characters who have the same name but not the same picto?) or whatever else you can think of.
Liking these questions... I'm
I personally draw pictos a
For my characters, their symbol is an outward representation of their soul, and also their way of remembering names. I often have them know how to 'read' pictograms, and have the translation as the other character's spoken name. (e) as for the same names, because those can be spelled differently but pronounced the same, pictos can look differently but be pronounced the same way.
Whenever I use a picto with a new character I feel as if the old one cannot come back because the pictogram defines them.
I myself don't draw pictos-
The names of my characters directly mimic, in my mind, the shape or appearance that the pictos generate. Hard to describe, but as a synesthete I see colour from shape and sound. I don't fully understand it myself, but for example. My Pandora's name is, in its very essence to me, a dark, saturated off-purple, intense, moving. So is the shape of her pictogram to me. So, connecting the two with her pictogram, her name literally is her pictogram. It doesn't hover, it just... exists. Inside.
Blah rambling.
But that's one reason.
The technical reason is that I simply can't figure out how to draw pictograms in such a way that they appear correct, and as a perfectionist, that drives me insane haha. I like doing things right, and if I can't do it right, I won't include it.
I include the picto a lot of
I generally don't imagine the picto as a physically manifest thing. It is more like a "sense" of identity. I would describe it as a feeling rather than a visible symbol or a language. My deer can't imagine the shape or form of the picto in the way we see them above the deer's heads, but it can recognize other deer through an intrinsic sense. The pictograms themselves as we see them are an attempt to condense this sense of identity into a shape. But like quanta, the pictogram is actually a much more complex system with many different states and is impossible to measure precisely. My deer can't "see" pictos.
Names are secondary to the pictogram and for me they are separate from the deer because language is a lossy medium. I love when people think up translations for them though. I like to think of the true name as a literal translation that is simply unreadable for us while english translations would mean taking a more context-based approach at the risk of losing the picto's original meaning.
Back when I used to draw, I
I, and my characters, have always seen pictograms, and we rely on them a lot. It's an identity, something we find vital for ourselves.
Now the naming thing is a bit tricky, since each person looks at it differently. I can't even explain, it's a bit complicated.
These are good questions, I
As far as association with characters, I tend to remember the 'picto name' first and the character's spoken name second. I'm pretty standard with that, I guess... But I find that I can remember characters solely by their picto without remembering their actual name. Old members that I haven't played with in a long time, especially. Accendare's a pretty good example, I met her the first day we played the game and I didn't see her for another year or so and practically forgot she was there until I saw the pictogram. It was pretty cool, haha. It's just like another name system, but somehow more efficient than words could ever be.
I'm rambling, I guess, should probably stop now.
When RolePlaying, I love the
I usually represent his physical pictogram as an emerald pendant flecked with copper. That is his identity and what would be left behind after he dies. Bones crumble and the body fades, but the soul stays.
I guess my idea would be that after a deer dies, their pictogram becomes the only physical things left behind. this way they are never truly forgotten at all.
If people don't like to include seeing pictograms and include them in RPs, I'll leave them out, but it's something I like doing.
I don't know if I'm making any sense.
{edit}
Here's his picto by the way. [X]
I think it makes a lot of
I actually think it's fun to incooperate in-forest elements like that directly into RPs... makes them more relevant to the context of the forest in a way. More involved.
Sorry it's taken me a while
J!n: So do I, but not really on purpose, a lot of the time I just really think of them. Of course now I've been thinking about them a lot more so that will probably change. Mm I usually keep rather close to the game personally as well, and I agree with you about them being their identities. Once I traded away one of my character's pictos and even though she wasn't that active or developed I still regret it.
I didn't think of that, of their names being our way of translating them rather than in-forest translation if that's what you're saying? Although now there are a lot of deer who were previously humans and there does seem to be distinctive human language use hm. But I do wonder if maybe true TEF deer would have their own language. And ah that sounds beautiful, makes me wish we could see the sky in-game.
Apoidea: That's nice to hear, and yeah pictos do sometimes change. Trading up for older gens seems to be a thing recently.
Mm I agree, and that actually reminds me of something I used to wonder about. I was uncertain whether or not my deer should be able to know the other character's name by looking at their picto, or if they would have to wait for the other to introduce themselves. Either way though, they definitely recognize the actual symbol itself when identifying others. Ooh, I didn't think of the different spelling thing, that makes a lot of sense.
I haven't really been in that position before because usually when I give new characters older ones' pictograms, it's only because I didn't connect with it's previous owner, and it just overall didn't work out. I don't think I could ever reuse one of my main character's pictos.
Pandoras: I think I see what you're saying, that's very interesting; you did a good job of describing it in my opinion. Things to think about for me. And it's fine, I think this is a good subject to ramble on. I was rambling when I wrote this ha.
I tend to be a bit like that, one of the reasons I almost never draw backgrounds.
Unplugged: That makes sense, and I do admire the characters who are much more fluid like that, because I'm too concerned with details to not have a set design nn. And it works for your deer too, even though I don't think I've actually really met them in forest before, but your pictogram is one of the most recognizable to me from around the community site.
Hmm, I think I once had an idea of the sense thing too, though aside from them being their true identity I don't really tend to stick to one particular view of pictos myself. That's a interesting way of thinking of it, and seems rather fitting for deer. Oh yes the true names, I'd almost forgotten about those, I need to write mine down somewhere. I do like the idea that those are a more literal translation.
And to what you said at the bottom of the page, I definitely agree. Still haven't done a whole bunch of roleplaying yet, but some of the differences between rp and gameplay make it awkward in certain cases for me. Like one of my deer, a huge part of his character for a long time has been his water walking and dancing, which he considers a normal part of the forest, when a fair amount of characters have actually fallen/jumped into the pond and drowned in the past, rather than just turning to frogs. I'd rather not give him powers ah. It also seems like forest magic isn't always acknowledged though I'm not certain.
Lung: I'm wasn't too happy with how I drew pictograms for a while either hm.
I see, and yes there do some to be a lot of different ideas, some I hadn't considered. Just reading the responses here have been fascinating.
thelittleraven: Thank you, I guess it's a good thing I decided to share them. Something secret only they can speak that we don't know... oh now I never thought of it like that, it sounds lovely.
Mm, my mind doesn't quite work that way, although I think it really depends over time which I'm most exposed to in association to the characters, whether the name or pictogram. Lately it seems I know far more names than pictos, probably because I've been spending more of my time on the community site (Though we're getting better internet Wednesday so I might be in forest more yay!).
And again, rambling is welcome here~
CydaLuva83: That does make a lot of sense. Really great way thinking about as well, and it seems like it has some excellent root in-game, while elaborating on it. For instance pictograms naturally pulse and change size and what not in game I think, and even after a character has died, their picto is still there, even if it's not being used. And I like how the pictograms are equated with the soul, which matches.
Really lovely picto he has there by the way.
placing this here for later
I like to think that the
But when it comes to the deer themselves, they dont need to see the glyphs because they can understand that...sense of self. That spirit?
If that makes any sense at all.
I pretty much opt out pictos when I draw because they are distracting, no other reason than that.
Then again, Ive noticed a trend with not only mine but others art when they begin and where they are now. Some people seem to include the pictos when they first start drawing their characters, but as they evolve, those pictos seem to vanish. Could be nothing, but worth noting anywho.
din: I shall watch ouo I saw
parrotsnpineapple: Yes it does, I think some others have a view similar to that, and I kind of remember thinking something to that effect myself. I do like that idea.
And yeah, I know what you mean. I was looking back on some of my older work today and noticed pretty much all of them had pictos, whereas now I don't seem to include them as often. hmm. I wonder if it has some root in character design? When my deer started out, they basically had the same artistic appearance as their in-game sets, so including pictograms helped to distinguish them. And now, though they still look somewhat close to what they are in game; they have evolved to being recognizable on their own.