Anthropology in The Forest: Possible Human Influence

AlisonRobin's picture
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ANTHROPOLOGY IN THE FOREST
Possible Human Influence


INTRODUCTION

My deer La wants very much to be a really recognized archaeologist in The Forest, in part because I think it would be a fun job and in part because it seems like something that hasn't been done before. La is also obsessed with humans, so there's that. Consider this page La's research as much as it is mine.

The Endless Forest is rich with little details that I adore--that one spot by the pond full of dragonflies, the different sounds of the masks, but I am most entranced by the implied history of the setting. There are some details given to us by ToT, but for the most part the creators and game are ambiguous (intentionally, I believe) about many details. This is fun because it means that each of us is free to explore how we want and draw our own conclusions about the world we play in. And I'm here with some possible conclusions and I'd love if you'd share yours.

This page lists things from the real world that resemble or have some relevance to things in The Endless Forest. Anthropology, archeology, art, different cultures--all that. I'll update it whenever I get new information or catch an error.

THE MEGALITHS AT THE PLAYGROUND

I don't often go to The Playground, but one thing I noticed when I got there was the scattering of megalithic standing stones.

A good real live example would be the Carnac stones—a collection of around three thousand standing stones in France. The Carnac stones are arranged, unlike the Playground megaliths.

There is a Christian Legend that says that an army of Pagans chased Pope Cornelius and he turned them to stone (and that that's how the Carnac Stones came to be, apparently). Considering that Endless Forest Deer have the ability to convert Pagan souls, is it impossible to believe that they could turn living humans to stone? It could explain the haphazard organization as well as the upright shape.

THE MOTHER, FATHER, CHILD STATUES AND THE FOUNTAIN

I have always found that those statues resemble gorillas, but gorillas are very rare in mythology worldwide, and seem to have no place in the histories of Christianity and European Paganism.

Their size and texture reminds me of the Olmec heads found in southern Mexico, which date back as far as 1500 BCE. Seventeen enormous carvings of human heads have been left by this ancient culture.

As for The Crying Idol, the Ancient Greeks were the first people to create fountains and it was generally the case that fountain sculptures were of deities. Seeing as we call it The Crying Idol, I think it's fair to assume that even if it isn't a god it was something to be worshiped.

Spyrre pointed out that the idols' faces resemble 5 to 6 thousand year old stone sculptures found in Ukraine.

Gurgelin pointed out that the statues look like jizou statues. The spirits (kami in Japanese, this word doesn't directly translate to English and is both spirit and god) that inhabid the jizou protect, among other things, children and travelers. Not all jizou resemble our forest's idols, but I found some that do look like ours. Gurgelin also showed that some statues from the Oscar-winning Miyazaki animated film Spirited Away bear a striking resemblance to those in our beloved Forest.

THE ENAME RUINS

If one observes The Ruins from above, one can see that the floor plan of the old Christian church was in the rough shape of a crucifix, which is very common for grand cathedrals. Based on the height of the pillars, the cathedral was likely quite tall. Near the middle of the main aisle, where the two planks of wood on the cross would meet, is The Endless Forest's Point of Origin.

Here is a sketch of the foundation of that I found on the Tale of Tales page about The Ruins. That page says speaks of, "...the presence of an important archeological site where an abbey was built over the remains of a fortress to defend against the French Kingdom around the year 1000. Today nothing remains of the abbey but its foundations. ... we imagined our own version of what the historical site could look like. Fitting with the romantic picture of our forest, we created a ruin of the gothic Saint Salvator church, based on actual measurements."

THE BRIDGE

On the pond page of the Tale of Tales site, the questions are already posed for me: "Where are the people who built and used this bridge? Did it serve the monks when they went to mass in the cathedral? When did the humans disappear? Or did they not?"

THE TWIN GODS' STATUES

The Twin Gods' statues are so different aesthetically from the other stones in The Forest that I'm decently convinced that they were made at a different time by different people out of a different material.

Another wonderful addition by Spyrre is that the Twin Gods, when "hugging," look a lot like "The Kiss," a hundred year old sculpture by Romanian artist Constantin Brâncusi.

Gurgelin added her view of the statues here and here as kneeling humanoids with long beards, hair, and robes. She noted the "scary snake face" in the middle of their backs as well, something that I had noticed but never analyzed.

IoRez shared (more eloquently than I could ever have managed) that the Twin Gods resemble "the Omo Dei (Latin for "man (is) of God) - the representation of a god beholding itself (reference from Dante Aligheri's Inferno), and a medieval notion of God's signature on man. Representative of duality, the Omo Dei also implies the seeking of the center. The two faces regarding one another is a symbol of introspection and inner divinity. When viewed at once, the two faces appear to actually be two halves of the same face. This is a common theme amongst twinned/paired statues in the Far East, often a set of lions or dragons." He suggested this album art as another example of Omo Dei in art.

STUMPS AND LOGS

There are stumps and logs in The Endless Forest. That's weird.



They are even, as if cut by tools. The wood inside makes them look like they were cut recently. Granted, a few of the logs have been around long enough that plants are growing around them to make nursery logs, but most appear recent. Our deer sit around them and jump over them, but who put them in that arrangement? Who has the tools to cut them cleanly and move them? Vala pointed out to me in another thread that sometimes you can hear a tree fall if you listen to the game.

UNGULATES WITH PEOPLE FACES IN OTHER CULTURES


The Mesopotamian god Lamassu is often depicted as having a bull body and a human face. You'll see him a lot if you look through ancient art. Sometimes other animal parts are sometimes present.

There is also Al-buraq, a winged steed with a human face. While not Christian, it is important in Islam and is said to have carried both the Prophet Muhammad and Abraham.

Frida Kahlo at one time painted herself as a deer. That's a very recent reference (mid 20th century) but Kahlo's big and worthy of mention.

AFTERWORD

If you know something I don't know, please tell me. If you would like to contribute anything, let me know and I'll add it in and credit the thoughts to you. If I've got something wrong, tell me. If you have an opinion differing from mine, please share it. If you liked this, please let me know.

Do not worry about this being an older thread. It and its contents are active, I promise. It's just a slow process of research, learning, and suggestions.

I'm always looking to learn new things.
shaku's picture

jldksfaj I love this so hard.

jldksfaj I love this so hard. *tracks all over this thread*

AlisonRobin's picture

Wow, you posted fast! XD

Wow, you posted fast! XD Thank you!
shaku's picture

I've been looking out for

I've been looking out for more stuff like this from you XD *was superexcited to see it*

Edit: Let it also be known that I'm an Art History (well, Art and Design, but I took more Art History than Design classes) minor. I envy your background of growing up with such things ;u;

Tuhka's picture

Wow... you've really taken

Wow... you've really taken your time to investigate things.
This was such an interesting read, I enjoyed it. : D
AlisonRobin's picture

@Shaku: I was less enthused

@Shaku: I was less enthused as a kid because I didn't know all of the historic stuff that went along with the art, so it just sort of floated around me and I couldn't connect it to my life. Now that I'm done with high school and I know my world history better, I'm a lot more interested. I still call my mom up whenever I have a question about art or cultural history stuff.

@Tuhka: I'm glad you liked it! I really enjoy research and learning new things, and the only thing I like more than that is sharing what I've learned, so I love doing little projects like this whenever I can.
shaku's picture

I'm thinking you probably

I'm thinking you probably absorbed more than you think XD I remember my dad taking down the old, dusty books of human evolution and flipping through them. Some of my most vivid memories, and it didn't even happen that often. (Gave me a real interest in biology.)

But yeah, having your mom as a contact must be really nice XD

I'm interested in seeing whether this ties in to what the gods actually have planned~

AlisonRobin's picture

I hope the gods don't do

I hope the gods don't do something just to make me look like an idiot XD

Evolutionary biology is one of my favorite things! My dad read me a lot of the books he liked, like Edgar Rice Burroughs and Isaac Asimov. He did buy me an illustrated encyclopedia of prehistoric creatures though. That's like, the best gift you can give a seven year old except for maybe a huge cardboard box.

I really enjoyed reading this

I really enjoyed reading this :'D interesting, interesting. I would love to see more things like this <3
AlisonRobin's picture

Glad you liked and want more!

Glad you liked and want more! It's already linked to in the text, but the sister research to this is about the coordinate grid system in the game.

http://www.endlessforest.org/community/point-origin-magic-and-mathematics-tef
PLK217's picture

Like everyone else said, it

Like everyone else said, it is really interesting. I have also made some of my own theories about the Forest but that were just some ideas that once suddenly appeared in my mind...
Ysrael's picture

Wow, this actually sums up a

Wow, this actually sums up a bunch of the questions I had been asking myself about the forest really quite well!
You get a well-deserved track for this <3
Mordecai's picture

{tracked} I've always

{tracked}
I've always wondered about the origin/inspiration of the less-natural stuff ^-^
quadraptor's picture

Outstanding, this is very

Outstanding, this is very cool and you've got a great skill there!

Heh, since I'm a geologist, maybe I should try to figure out what kind of rocks are in the Playground Eye
eyestrain's picture

All of your entries are so

All of your entries are so thoughtful and this is so carefully researched I feel smarter for having read it.

I don't strive to be the best, but instead I strive to do my best, and always give it my all every time.
-faunet
Seed's picture

This is pretty cool. As for

This is pretty cool. As for the Forest and Religion... It's a good question. Your deer'll have a fun time sorting that out.
Ephra's picture

Awesome! I've overlooked

Awesome! I've overlooked these landmarks so many times without even thinking about where they came from. You've really done your research. Thank you! Laughing out loud
Munkel's picture

Oh *___* I love archaeology

Oh *___* I love archaeology so much (even wanted to become an archaeologist some time ago 8'D).
I love your text and how you're comparing each thing to real archaeological finds &hearts

Wow, informative. I feel

Wow, informative.

I feel all smarty-smart now

AlisonRobin's picture

@PLK217 Thanks! If you want,

@PLK217 Thanks! If you want, you're welcome to share some of your hypotheses.

@Ysrael Thank you. Always glad to help summarize Laughing out loud

@Mordecai Me too, that's why I did this, lol. I'm not saying that Neo-Sumerian sculptures are the inspiration, I'm just saying that they might be and that there are similarities.

@Quadraptor You totally should do that! I would love to read about it.

@eyestrain It's always nice to embiggen brains

@Seed Yes she will!

@Ephra No, thank you. Maybe you'll have more fun thinking about them when you see 'em next time you're in the forest.

@Munkel I don't know anyone who didn't want to be an archaeologist growing up! It's a job where you get to read books and play in the dirt--what's not to love?

@kittyo8 Feels good, huh?
eyestrain's picture

Consider my brain embiggened.

Consider my brain embiggened. Smiling

I don't strive to be the best, but instead I strive to do my best, and always give it my all every time.
-faunet
Spyrre's picture

o__o

o__o <3
I love your ideas.. Don´t have anything smart to say, but that this research was very interesting to read...
I really love the primal art/landmarks in the forest and its statues... somehow I always got reminded of some kind of "mother nature"/gaia-entity of the pagan statues/fountain, but didn´t really think about them THAT much.
As looking around in Google, I also found something that made me think your drawing of the Twin gods-statues a lot: http://www.minusspace.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/krieger-10.jpg
I´m not sure if that´s authentic historical sculpture or something more recent, but I think it holds a lot of the same idea as the Twins combined together when they move around.


Edit:
Hey, don´t this remind you of the pagan stetues somehow? The facial features are kind of similar.

Here´s the whole article: http://ua-traveling.com/en/article/ukrainian-stonehenge
AlisonRobin's picture

First off, thanks for

First off, thanks for reading! Secondly, thanks for contributing!
The sculpture you found is called "The Kiss", and it is by Constantin Brâncu?i, a Romanian sculptor. It's about a hundred years old--old enough to pre-date the Twin Gods' statues!
I really enjoyed reading the Ukrainian article, and I definitely agree that the faces are similar. I have never heard of Ukrainian Stonehenge before. I did like that the article was trying (a little desperately) to try to make itself look as important as Stonehenge.
gurgelin's picture

About the pagan idols, I

About the pagan idols, I always thought they were inspired by those japanese spirit/god statue/stones... I don't remember what they're called now, unfortunately. I think it may be "dosojin" but not sure.. >_< But here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtqbKETUzZg It's 0:20-0:30ish, and 0:55ish also) Did you see that movie? It's my favorite. Smiling I couldn't find the clip from the actual movie, which has an even better closeup of one of them.. the resemblance is rather striking. Smiling

EDIT: Yes, I could. Sticking out tongue http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d18NFszLEbg&feature=related at 2:45. (oh god that music! x'D)
AlisonRobin's picture

Thanks Gurgelin! I added this

Thanks Gurgelin! I added this to main post. I had totally forgotten about jizou (and doosojin, one subtype). Thanks for reminding me!

Yes, I have seen Spirited Away, but never in English and not for a long time. I gotta rewatch that now. Not only do the statues in the movie look more like the ones in our forest than any other thing I've seen anywhere, they're darn cute. The faceless guy from the movie (I don't remember what it's called in the subtitles and I don't know what they call him in the dub) kind of has that oblong shape with just the face, too, doesn't he?

I really like Miyazaki movies in general. We know that the Twin Gods like Miyazaki, too, because one of the masks available for deer to wear is straight out of Mononoke-hime.
gurgelin's picture

Ohh great! I thought I should

Ohh great! I thought I should have looked them up better for you, but I got a bit impatient. Guess there's no need since you already knew them! ^^

Oh, I never saw it in English either, tbh. I think it's difficult to make a good English (or Swedish for that matter) dub over anything Japanese, their two "souls" are just too different. Oh yeah, the kaonashi, I was thinking of him too.. His face (or lack thereof) would make a good mask! :3

Cool, which mask is that?? I don't remember Mononoke-hime that well... but yeah, I think a lot of the forest is similar to Mononoke-hime, it must have been a pretty big inspiration. Look, look: here! (No one seemed to wanna watch this AMV which I love, so I'm gonna force it on you... since we're on the subject and all! xD)
AlisonRobin's picture

No problem XD I don't

No problem XD

I don't remember the name of the mask, bu it's based on the forest spirit's deer/kirin/day form's face. The AMV was a little creepy, as I've always found the kodomo spirits (kodomo means child) to be particularly disturbing. When I was living in Japan, one of the stories I heard was that when some children die, they remain as ghosts and don't realize they're dead. They go around and try to get people to play with them, but because they're dead no one plays. Sad I always think of that when I see the little kodomo and it makes me sad. When I first heard the story, I was at the age where I was really impressionable, and the folk tales I've heard have really stuck with me.

I also know a story about jizou, if you're interested. It's one of my favorites.

There was an old man and an old woman who were happily married. They made hats, and sold them in the market. They were poor, but very happy. One winter, no one wanted to buy the couples' hats, and they became so poor they had nothing to eat. One snowy day, on his way home from the market, carrying many hats, the husband passed a cluster of jizou statues, collecting snow. He took his scarf and wiped snow off of them, and put a hat on each of their heads. When he got to the last jizou, he was out of hats, so he gave it the hat he had been wearing and went home hatless.
He got home safe, and slept next to his wife in their tiny home. In the night, the jizou spirits came to thank the man for his thoughtfulness, and they brought him money and food for him and his wife--more than the couple had ever seen in their lives.
gurgelin's picture

Oh yeah, the kodomo spirits

Oh yeah, the kodomo spirits are a little sad I guess. :/ Don't we have that too, though? At least in parts of Europe, we have something called "will o' the wisps" (irrbloss in Swedish), which are children spirits.. I think it might even be children who were murdered or lost in the woods or drowned... that are like little lights dancing over bogs and waters. And those innocent and lonely spirits will try to get travelers to come play with them, often resulting in the traveler drowning. That's even more horrible, don't you think? I'm morbidly fascinated by this kind of thing, though. It's horrible and wonderful to me. :3

Ooh, I think I've heard that story before! Shocked It must have been my japanese teacher who told it. I didn't remember it that well, I had forgotten it was about jizou. That shines an interesting light on those pagan idols, I think! I always thought those statues looked a lot more inviting and friendly than all of the creepy graves on the other side.
IoRez's picture

Great thread! Just thought

Great thread!

Just thought I'd add my two cents re: the Twin God statues resembling the Omo Dei (Latin for "man (is) of God) - the representation of a god beholding itself (reference from Dante Aligheri's Inferno), and a medieval notion of God's signature on man. Representative of duality, the Omo Dei also implies the seeking of the center. The two faces regarding one another is a symbol of introspection and inner divinity. When viewed at once, the two faces appear to actually be two halves of the same face. This is a common theme amongst twinned/paired statues in the Far East, often a set of lions or dragons.

Here is another (my favorite) example, from the cover of Pink Floyd's The Division Bell.
AlisonRobin's picture

@Gurgelin: I've heard of

@Gurgelin: I've heard of will-o-wisps as malevolent spirits, but never as confused children. "Irrbloss" is fun to say. X3

@IoRez: Thankyouthankyouthankyou! I added your contribution to the main post as soon as I read it. Thank you so much!
PLK217's picture

I know it is far from this

I know it is far from this topic but I just feel the need to post this. Especially when Pink Floyd is mentioned already.

Just watch this and look at the faces of the children.

The spirits' irregular faces always associate me those mask. Don't ask me why, I just don't know.
AlisonRobin's picture

That video was terrifying.

That video was terrifying.
PLK217's picture

Ehm, yes.

Ehm, yes.
woodswolf's picture

Tracking! Anyways, I have an

Tracking!
Anyways, I have an idea on a 'history' of TEF. I've looked all around and found this history.
First, humans (possibly monks) came and built the Cathedral and/or the bridge. Later, the humans died out and/or bred with the deer (how we got human faces). New humans came and built the pagan statues and/or the 'crying idol', but then died out and/or bred with the deer (another possibility). After that, the Twin Gods came and built the Abiogenesis statues. That pretty much brings us up to modern times.
I hope this helps.
Also, to solve the 'religion' problem, maybe they were just 'respecting the ruins' instead of 'disrespecting them' by littering the area with Christian graves instead of pagan idols.
I hope this helps.
PS: I have NO IDEA why there are like 10x comments.
See you in the Forest!
woodswolf's picture

Tracking! Anyways, I have an

Tracking!
Anyways, I have an idea on a 'history' of TEF. I've looked all around and found this history.
First, humans (possibly monks) came and built the Cathedral and/or the bridge. Later, the humans died out and/or bred with the deer (how we got human faces). New humans came and built the pagan statues and/or the 'crying idol', but then died out and/or bred with the deer (another possibility). After that, the Twin Gods came and built the Abiogenesis statues. That pretty much brings us up to modern times.
I hope this helps.
Also, to solve the 'religion' problem, maybe they were just 'respecting the ruins' instead of 'disrespecting them' by littering the area with Christian graves instead of pagan idols.
I hope this helps
See you in the Forest!
woodswolf's picture

Tracking! Anyways, I have an

Tracking!
Anyways, I have an idea on a 'history' of TEF. I've looked all around and found this history.
First, humans (possibly monks) came and built the Cathedral and/or the bridge. Later, the humans died out and/or bred with the deer (how we got human faces). New humans came and built the pagan statues and/or the 'crying idol', but then died out and/or bred with the deer (another possibility). After that, the Twin Gods came and built the Abiogenesis statues. That pretty much brings us up to modern times.
I hope this helps.
Also, to solve the 'religion' problem, maybe they were just 'respecting the ruins' instead of 'disrespecting them' by littering the area with Christian graves instead of pagan idols.
I hope this helps
See you in the Forest!
woodswolf's picture

Tracking! Anyways, I have an

Tracking!
Anyways, I have an idea on a 'history' of TEF. I've looked all around and found this history.
First, humans (possibly monks) came and built the Cathedral and/or the bridge. Later, the humans died out and/or bred with the deer (how we got human faces). New humans came and built the pagan statues and/or the 'crying idol', but then died out and/or bred with the deer (another possibility). After that, the Twin Gods came and built the Abiogenesis statues. That pretty much brings us up to modern times.
I hope this helps.
Also, to solve the 'religion' problem, maybe they were just 'respecting the ruins' instead of 'disrespecting them' by littering the area with Christian graves instead of pagan idols.
I hope this helps
See you in the Forest!
woodswolf's picture

Tracking! Anyways, I have an

Tracking!
Anyways, I have an idea on a 'history' of TEF. I've looked all around and found this history.
First, humans (possibly monks) came and built the Cathedral and/or the bridge. Later, the humans died out and/or bred with the deer (how we got human faces). New humans came and built the pagan statues and/or the 'crying idol', but then died out and/or bred with the deer (another possibility). After that, the Twin Gods came and built the Abiogenesis statues. That pretty much brings us up to modern times.
I hope this helps.
Also, to solve the 'religion' problem, maybe they were just 'respecting the ruins' instead of 'disrespecting them' by littering the area with Christian graves instead of pagan idols.
I hope this helps
See you in the Forest!
Nayu's picture

Tracking this thread. Thanks

Tracking this thread. Thanks for the hard work you put into it, I hope to contribute in some way or another!

Siggy by Butterbrot <3
woodswolf's picture

Same thing, Nayu!

Same thing, Nayu!
See you in the Forest!
AlisonRobin's picture

Alright, I just finished

Alright, I just finished putting in some edits and doing a general page overhaul. Bumping now that it's nice and pretty and if anyone has any information they want me to add or headcanons about humans in the forest that they want to share, feel free to say so.
Verdalas's picture

This made for a very

This made for a very interesting read. I remember seeing the photos of the place the Ename was inspired and it actually made me curious about the monks that may have also built the bridge. Perhaps our deer -are- the monks. Or were.
AlisonRobin's picture

I wonder that sometimes,

I wonder that sometimes, because of the note on the ToT pond page implying that the humans didn't leave. Considering that TEF deer have the power to convert souls to Christianity I wouldn't bet against the possibility that TEF deer are descendants or transformed versions of the monks. Since they're canonically all stags and monks had to be male makes it seem a bit more possible too.

throwing my two cents in here

throwing my two cents in here cause I can and I think it's a fairly good idea.

I've been thinking about fauns for the past couple of days now. What if the deer have human faces because they were fauns before the gods came? It would explain much, but I don't think fauns have any ties with religion? Asking you because none of the articles I've read say so. But anyways what is some of the man made stuff in the first are the permanent markings of the fauns before the Gods turned them into deer - maybe they were angry at them for changing the first so they took away their human half but couldn't reverse the damages they had done.


also tracking <3
LambFleece's picture

Tracking, and reading through

Tracking, and reading through it ALL later.

Similar to Toppled's idea, I always had the idea that the deer were the beginnings of fauns or faun-like critters, rather than a result.

Or, that they were never really related to anything humanoid, but instead like the idea of human faces (maybe they believe these are pretty or useful?) and have mixed it with their own face through magic.
Assuming they learned of human faces because of some humans that lived here before, the monks of the Ename Ruin likely. Hmm. Smiling

Avvie by Hadoukin
Mjrn's picture

/bookmarks I love reading

/bookmarks

I love reading all of this, it's amazing how much detail was put into the game when you think about it.

And yes, you can hear the sound of trees falling quite often actually, at least when I play.
Account previously Mjrn, returned to Veedeer.
AlisonRobin's picture

@Toppled Fauns have heavy

@Toppled Fauns have heavy religious ties back to the Greek god Pan and Satyrs, and they were originally said to be part goat rather than part deer. Faun was what they were called in Latin when the Roman Pantheon was the big thing and Pan was renamed Faunus iirc. But I'm not ruling anything out for The Endless Forest.

@Lamb I've always seen the human faces as The Gods making their followers/children in their own image. There are other other hooved creatures in myth with human faces too, like Al-buraq (also from an Abrahamic religion, Islam), and Lamassu (from a much older religion). Frida Kahlo also did a painting of herself as a deer. EDIT: Adding this info to the main post.

@Mjrn I'm not sure how many of these connections they thought about but seeing as they are professional artists I'll bet you they knew at least about the Frida Kahlo painting I just linked Lamb to and quite possibly the other ones. It's possible that they pulled a lot of it totally from imagination and these resemblances are all coincidental. But I like to look at it from the deers' perspective too, from within the game.