The fourth beta version of The Endless Forest Second Decade is now available to backers
AND community members!
This release is intended to be the first
public release of the remake. So please
download and install it and give it a spin before we open it up to everybody.
If you find any errors, please send a bug report to
test@tale-of-tales.com. Thank you!
Michael Samyn + Auriea Harvey.
Congratulations, what
Unfortunately I have some problems running the program and the intel graphics driver it wants.. I hope it will be easier at a later time, otherwise I will have to try to make more of an effort
Thanks for sharing the
Won't hide the fact that throughout the development of the game, I restrained myself as much as I could to not follow the updates too much and keep the emotions of updating an expensive game before the beta release.
And here we are. The result is more disappointing than gratifying. I know that all the new stuff is pretty hard to take for an audience that already loved the old version, and also that a lot of things are still being tweaked. However, the intermediate result is not worth the time you spent on it. And it is absolutely not the investment that the community and I have donated to our favorite game. And it's not about bugs, it's about how the picture looks as a whole. Its content. In seven years, have we gotten smooth movements and more forest fill? Saturated image? Idk...
Perhaps I should play this version more to fully experience its merits, and I'm missing a lot of things as a standard player, not a developer. But still... Pity.
This is exciting! Thank you
You last mentioned in a previous post that the Christmas gone by was our last in the original game - do you know when we can expect for it to be shut down, and is there any possibility you can allow it to continue running for the community until all major bugs have been fixed in the remake?
The reason I ask is because the remake currently has so many performance issues that are causing a vast majority of the community unable to run the game, I fear many of us will be without The Endless Forest until the remake is playable performance-wise and that we will lose a lot of our members (and potential for new ones) ):
Please email bug reports or
Please include steps to reproduce bugs. And technical details of the computer that showed the issues (specifically videocard, CPU, RAM and version of Windows).
Thanks!
I've spent 5 minutes in the
Sorry but, 7 years and 50k for this..?
I feel bad for the people that spent their hard earned money to fund this downgrade. You should have put your pride aside and accepted help from the countless of talented people that offered to help rebuild their favourite game *for free* or at least hired people that know what they're doing.
I know this is not the comment you'd like to read, but as someone who has been part of this community and has loved this game dearly for over a decade, this disappointment of a remake feels like a slap in all of our faces.
"Are you ready for The
No, I am not ready. Actually, I would wager that none of us are.
The day that we are forced to go from this:
to this:
...is the day The Endless Forest effectively dies.
It is unanimously felt within the community that your remake is an eyesore and a downgrade.
To me, the bugs are not even worth fixing until certain key features are addressed.
Firstly, let's look at the original TEF and what it got right:
1. The floor texture. It is by far the most beautiful I have seen in any game meant to be viewed artisticially.
I adore its many variations in hues and values, how they make the ground appear sundappled, shaded, mossy, lush, soft. It makes you want to explore the map in order to find any new little areas you may previously have overlooked.
In contrast, the floor texture in the remake looks about as appealing as a deep fried meme. It appears oddly contrasted and strange. I don't want to look at it.
2. The delicately placed sparse vegetation. In my many years of playing your game, I loved stumbling upon these little detailed areas where everything appeared purposefully arranged, which often beautifully complemented the forest floor.
In contrast, the placement of plants and trees in the remake appears busy and random, which is only highlighted by the contrasting floor texture. It's quantity over quality. The dandelions are also far too big while the mushrooms are far too small.
While I understand that the minimalism at the time was out of technical necessity rather than purely aesthetic, as long as the game isn't given an upgrade in its entirety, I would say that it's integral to keep the style of the forest cohesive.
Rather than what appears to be mindlessly dotting the landscape with vegetation, I would've instead liked to see it be more strategically placed. Plants growing moreso around shrubs and trees, perhaps with the addition of collections of small rocks and mushrooms here and there.
3. The controls. The movement within the original game feels fun and dynamic. By just being able to combine a handful of different emotes, the community developed a quite intricate and context-driven body language that made interacting with one another engaging.
The controls in the remake are clunky. And emotes cannot be blended which severely impacts communication in a game that doesn't rely on a chat. While I'm aware that the blending was essentially a bug left in the game, it's been a major reason for the game's popularity over the years. It needs to stay.
Thank you for reading!
Here to say I also am not
"Are you ready for the Second
No.
Also Jin hit the nail on the head with why TEF 2.0 is currently so incredibly disappointing. It's sad to see such a treasured game end up in such a state especially after seven years. Or even moreso if you want to count TEF's actual lifespan of well over a decade.
Unfortunately, I have to
TEF has been home to many of us for 15-20 years; please don't think that these criticisms come from anything but a long-lasting love of the game and a desire to see its longevity continue. We all care very deeply about the game. It's not a fear of change or a demand for the game to stay exactly as it is - we just don't want to see it get worse rather than better.
EDIT: Also, I think Jin's post in particular does a really good job of highlighting some of the specific problems with the beta so far! The bugs and glitches are one thing, but I think the textures + lack of emote blending are the most important factors, at least to me.
Thank you so much, J!n, for
Thank you to everyone, and
@Michael Would you be open
Would you be open to the community lending a hand?
TEF means a lot to us as well and I'm sure there'd be people who'd be willing to try and keep this afloat.
I just wanted to leave my two
I can empathize with fellow players in being disappointed with the outcome of the remake. Echoing the stiff controls, the environment lacking care. Right now, it feels less than the original to a degree.
I hope I speak for a lot of us when I say what we really want is the game remade to the standard of the original. I believe the beta isn't too far from this, with some changes. I don't want you to feel like you have failed, Micheal, because I do think this is absolutely fixable.
Quote:Maybe I should let go
I mean, the community did help fund the remake, so... I don't think letting go is really the best option here xD; Even if I understand the desire to just give up while feeling disheartened.
In all seriousness though, I agree with Evern. None of the problems so far are insurmountable. You need more user testing for sure, and perhaps more robust testing on your end too (including testing with different computers/seeing how the game looks and runs on different machines), but it's not a lost cause by any means.
I think letting the community help in whatever way we can might be a good step forward - or failing that, looking elsewhere to hire people for art design, coding, whatever it is that you need assistance with that you feel is limiting your ability to complete the remake to standard.
I have to agree with everyone
I would say that "giving up" is not a good idea, but instead of getting help from the community as a whole, would be better idea! I'm pretty sure there is a lot of people from this community who would help you out with this project and bring the bright life for TEF again, to make it perfect place for everyone and improve it a bit.
Also pointing out that there has been bunch of people, helping to improve TEF just buying and sharing their money for this game to keep it running, so of course it would be pain for many players to see that their money would go waste if you just give up with the project. Please, accept the helping hands.
I just really wish there would be bright future for The Endless Forest in the future and that we, as a whole community, can help you with the whole project. At least consider the help from the community.
Hello Michael, Let me give
Let me give my opinion on the subject (even if I agree with all that has been said).
I personally literally grew up with TEF. I started playing it when I was 12 years old. I am 26 today. It's the only game I know I could play all my life: it's a refuge for me, a little haven of peace. I sometimes leave it for some months, but I always come back. It would be so hard if it had to end like this (and I'm sure it would be for you too). If I write this, it's to try to make you understand to what extent your game has touched hearts - and not just mine. I understand that you are tired of the game remake, and that our comments may seem discouraging. But all here we give you our feedback only to help, because this game matters so much to us.
Giving up so close to the goal (closer than we have ever been) does not seem like a viable option to me. Especially since so many members here have contributed financially. This is not my case, but I think I can say without lying that they would not be happy if the remake was canceled. Also, you have already spent so much time on the remake ! You've made the biggest part that had to be made. We are aware of this.
Please consider that the community would like to help you. This will always be your game, but many of us can help you finally finish this step. When this is behind us, you and we will be more than happy to be able to play TEF II. Don't be discouraged so close to the goal!
I would add that we are in the process of preparing an online table for you with our concrete feedback and supporting examples. We will send it to you as soon as we have finished writing our observations. We hope this can help
Avatar by Awentia, signature by Wildflowerdeer
If anyone here is familiar
Would you be open to those
I do not have a portfolio nor recent experience with UE, however I have experience with software engineering, programming, and project management.
Hello Michael, As Solaya
As Solaya mentioned in the post from Jan. 29, 2024, I too have grown up with TEF. I was only 8 years old when I started playing it in 2010, I am now 21 years old. Throughout the years, I have enjoyed playing this game with my friends. One of my favorite things to do is to help new players and other friends explore and help them by using forest magic to save their avatar appearances.
Also, I enjoyed being part of the holiday festivals at Halloween and Christmas. I too gave candles to everyone from the playground when it was a special event like the holidays. I shared with the community photographs from these events of my deer with other TEF friends. This game is the only game that is a happy place for me. It is one of the only games that is a safe haven for me as well. I really hope there is a way that the game can continue for players like me and all the others that I see joining.
Michael, I appreciate you and all the work you have put into this special world known as The Endless Forest.
Thank you for continuing on
So from an oldie, member for 16 years and 3 weeks (Crikey!), now married, with a 7 month old daughter; I remember the abiogenesis parties crashing my laptop time and time again, still logging on to take part as much as I could.
I very much look forward to The Endless Forest II and sharing it with my daughter.
Congratulations on your marriage, I hope there will be an abiogenesis after party
Best wishes x
Thank you for your sincere
I imagine that it must've been quite a discouraging realization to have after all the time and hard work you've put into this project.
I still think you can do it though! Maybe just not alone.
Hopefully there are people who are able to take the time and lend you a hand.
Something everyone can probably agree on is that giving up on something so special and beloved would be a mistake.
Thank you all for sending bug
I appreciate the proposals to help. But at this point, given the current bugs and issues, only an experienced UE5 developer can make a real difference.
I will try my best to imitate the old game. There are legitimate concerns that need to be addressed.
But it should be clear that the remake WILL look and feel different. This is unavoidable. An important reason for the style of the current game is that we worked within and around the limitations of the Quest3D engine. The Unreal engine has different limitations. And in my experience, one gets the best results by adapting to the engine and not working against it. But maybe we will have to wait for Phase 4 to really see what Unreal can contribute to The Endless Forest.
A reminder that the game is
Until the fundamentals are addressed by a professional, Phase 4 is not a carrot to dangle until you make good on Phase 3 promises.
Would another 40k help? I'm
I'm joking, but I do second the above comment.
Thank you for the
Maybe a small poll or survey where people can choose 2 or 3 things to prioritize? I think for me a lot of my biggest hopes would just be for "emote blending" to be added, and some of the movement options from the original game to be replicated. (Such as mouse/WASD controls for the avatars.) Everything else I look forward to seeing how it changes or grows with the next phase!
I am probably in the minority
I don't have an opinion one way or the other on the emotes/emote blending, as i prefer to just explore the forest rather than interact with the other deer.
My main complaint is the brightly colored floating dots in the new version initially made it hard to see where my cursor was, but it seems the dots are no longer as big and brightly colored, so this is no longer an issue.
Both versions are absolutely beautiful, and I look forward to seeing what you decide to do for the remake.
I'M NOT QUITE SURE BUT DALE!
This for everybody going through tough times, believe me been there done that.-Pitbull...2014
At least you admitted you
Youre legally, and contractually, obligated to deliver based on each goal tier that has been met, otherwise it is abuse and misleading.
Now I see above you are asking for more money for things that should have already been addressed in the new remake such as expert consultancy, on the goals already met. GOFundMe rules of delivering upon promises made for meeting each goal tier and abuse are literally stated on their website.
https://www.gofundme.com/c/safety/prior-policy
(psst, it's an IndieGoGo
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-endless-forest-second-decade#/
https://support.indiegogo.com/hc/en-us/articles/206389917-Does-Indiegogo-Guarantee-Perks
Unfortunately M and A used
Source
Still leaves a bad taste in my mouth though.
EDIT: Aivilo ninja JGKLDG
Hi! I'm a game developer
I'm a game developer building a multiplayer online game in unreal engine solo. I'm a long-time fan of TEF and Tale of Tales as a whole, you and A have been an inspiration to me. (Readers reading who know: PLEASE do not mention the game by name here.) I've been following this debacle for a hot second, I love TEF, and as someone who can no longer play it on modern hardware, I've been really looking forward to the remake's completion.
For context, I started developing this game fresh out of college and knew close to nothing about UE or game development at all. It's over five years into development, and only a couple since it's been playable (and since I've started asking for financial support). A handful of lovely people give me a little under 400 CAD a month to help develop this game, half of which pays for the online server. She's still a buggy mess, but I'm transparent with my players, and ask nothing but honesty and patience from them while I try my absolute best.
Criticism is hard, sometimes gut-wrenching, boy do I get it, and sometimes it's not even warranted. Here, it unfortunately is. =/ I hate to seem like I'm baring my teeth but I'm just speaking my truth as gently as possible. IF it hadn't already been seven years, I wouldn't personally bat an eye at the environment or textures looking any different, and probably wouldn't bat an eye at the glaring bugs, either. But it has been.
Game development IS hard, really hard, but I hate that you had to use that excuse.
A portion of the funds your dedicated, loving fans gave you, were supposed to go to expert consultancy. From what I understand (this is the first any of us are hearing of this, I should remind you), you instead took 50k, didn't even want to ask Auriea for help, and instead have painstakingly been trying to navigate though UE5 blind, and alone for seven years when development was estimated to take maybe three? "Game dev is hard" should not be an excuse when we trusted that you knew what you were doing in the first place, or that you'd ask for help. As onlookers, we feel that you have singlehandedly made this difficult for yourself. If this is wrong, correct us. Threatening to let 50k of your fans hard-earned money go to waste simply because "game dev is too hard" has undoubtedly made your fans lose trust in you.
TEF players are angry because they don't understand where their money has gone. $50k is A LOT of money, and should prove to you that your fans were so excited to support the development of and play this game. I'm not suggesting it's been ran off with and it's not in safekeeping somewhere, I'm stating that the current state of the beta does not reflect the time and money that should have been spent developing it for so many years. They're not asking for your full 24/7 dedication to the game, they're asking for transparency and a promise that the time, love and money they've put into TEF will not go to waste, instead they only feel that you've lost interest and faith in it, which really bites.
I think some of the aggression in the feedback made here is unwarranted admittedly, but I'm a placid gentle beast at heart. That being said, seeing the aggression thrown back in such an awful way disappointed me.
I'm only here commenting because it feels like you do not understand where the bad feedback is coming from.
We're still waiting and will continue waiting. Do not expect patience and understanding from your fans if you're not willing to give them patience and understanding in return.
Looking forward to seeing more updates and wishing you well with finding any help TEF's second decade may need. I'd offer my hand, but I'm occupied with my own projects. <3
My opinion, take it or leave
A remake AT ALL is a blessing. Even if it's not up to par for many of the players, at least it exists. It can always be improved more in the future and tweaked to what you all have imagined.
Your criticisms are valid. But think. The devs and you all have two options.
1) Hate the remake and just let it go, TEF will be no more once it can't be supported any longer. TEF will die. It seems most of you have moved on to other games anyway.
2) Have some form of it and watch it improve over time. Things can always be changed and added, adjusted. Even if it's not how you want it now, it still has the potential to get there.
From what I see, some of the points made seem entitled and petty knowing things can be changed over time and as resources and skills improve. I've put money into this game as well. And honestly, I'm just happy it has a chance to survive at all.
I wasnt originally going to
Most of us who have posted on here have been part of TEF for over a decade and on the contrary have stuck with the game to some degree, some of us do come and go and have sporadic activity. Some may even "move on" because of this long and unfruitful development of the TEF remake. And yet, even on top of that players tend to return to check up on the place. The comment that "It seems most of you have moved on to other games anyway." seems rather insulting given that it's not really true and TEF oldies and players in general seem to find their way back to TEF in one way or another and it's never truely forgotten and has wedged itself firmly in our hearts.
Which leads to my next point, it feels a bit ignorant to be labelling members of the community as "entitled and petty" when we've watched TEF grow from it's early days until now, we also deeply care for this game and have a fondness for classic TEF. Of course we're going to get upset when cherished features and other aspects of classic TEF are going to be ripped away from us on top of watching and waiting (eight years and counting) TEF's remake be developed.
Also the thing about "2) Have some form of it and watch it improve over time. Things can always be changed and added, adjusted. Even if it's not how you want it now, it still has the potential to get there." is. Usually, yes this is the case for games in active development and we are watching and waiting...Only to be kept mostly in the dark and being told something cannot and will not be added because it's a "bug" that cannot be recreated or "it looks fine on my screen." This community can only be patient and put up with the lack of transparency amongst other headaches for so long. It feels like we've reached the last straw and for some of us our faith has been shaken with this ongoing treatment.
I mean, there are players who have donated literal hundreds of dollars (Forest Magician and Patron perks) and I don't think they've even been approached in regards to concepting their sets. (Though to be slightly fair, you do need a working game first.)
Forgive me and the community for being a bit jaded about this whole situation but it's the reality for TEF, it's sadly not like many other early access and/or games in beta and our input and such rarely gets listened to even when it's given mindfully. I mean even for classic TEF I don't think it's ever had a bugfix in it's entire life and hasn't had many additions, especially in it's later years.
Swanly— Is it entitled and
Is it entitled and petty for a community to question where €51,034 worth of real money has gone? This was Michael's pledge:
Even after 12-18 months passed, the community remained patient and understanding. However, within 9 months, Michael should have at least hired consultants yet there has been no evidence of that. It could have solved the issue of "game development is hard" and it could have helped Michael achieve his goal much sooner.
It has been eight years. People coming and going is the natural way of all games and is not an excuse to neglect obligations when money is involved. Are you suggesting Michael should not bother because some of TEF's player base is gone? As Draak stated above, this is barely the case. There are many, many players who are still here from day one and TEF's new players are just as important.
It has been eight years of minimal communication and, according to Michael himself, it seems that we will not even be getting a true remake of the game. I am not talking about its colours or the positioning of foliage, I mean that it will not have the basic function of TEF that made it the beloved game that it is in the first place: body language to communicate with other players. There are emotes now, but they are still dysfunctional and it does not seem Michael has any plans to incorporate emote blending which was why body language worked so well in the first place. Something that many of us feel would be possible if he just hired consultants like he said he was going to do in the beginning.
Most importantly, it has been eight years and it is still not playable. Even for those who can open the game, and many have said they cannot, it barely functions. Is it going to take another eight years just for it to be playable?
We have two options:
1) Michael finishes the remake.
2) He doesn't.
Unfortunately, the latter is what appears to be the most realistic at this point in time. After donating €51,034 (128% more than the original goal) out of our own pocket to help Michael achieve his goal only for almost ten years to pass with empty promises, a lack of progress, a lack of communication, a lack of transparency, and community members repeatedly being dismissed (often rudely) when constructive criticism or even help is offered... I think it is more than valid that people have become frustrated and I think the community deserves the same empathy and understanding that we have given Michael for eight years instead of being shamed for these concerns.
I've been a member for over
I'm sad you all see things the way you do. I learned a long time ago not to get emotionally attached to pixels on a screen because it always ends, and not always well. You all know the risks of paying money into online entertainment. It's borrowing someone's work for a restricted time. Online games we do not own. They stay the property of the devs, never the users. We only pay for the right to use it. And it never lasts. This is the reality of online and digital services. It always has been. I put in my money knowing it might not work out. But without it, the chance wouldn't even be there. So even if it's not useable by others' standard, it had some good.
I'm a realist who tries to see the positivity in everything.
What members do outside of
If you are okay with the situation, that's fine! But this situation, right now, is not okay. When significant amounts of money are involved and promises are not fulfilled, open communication can be extremely important in achieving a positive outcome, and is why valid concerns shouldn't be dismissed. Especially for the community to be called petty and entitled.