just a thought

eyestrain's picture
I wonder if, the reason I leave is so that I can't be left.
I don't really understand it.
Why do I have a mental block when it comes to finishing something?
Why do I hate finishing something and being done with it?
Why is my solution to run away before the end and leave things hanging?

I push others away and feel lonely. But I am really good at making myself alone again, and so easily disappointed or disinterested with others. Why is being with others so difficult?

==============

original text:
I wish I could just zap an image out of my eyes by thinking really hard about it
shaku's picture

I sometimes worry that your

I sometimes worry that your beautiful mask is putting distance between people who would like you for you. But then again, I worry about that with everyone who's in a position where they have to deal with so many people in a kind, civil way. I think you've donned the most lovely, unoffensive mask I've ever seen, though :3 Skills, woman.

I'm sure you'll find people like that again ♥


Edit: Aaaand second page >>;; Prominent spot... *makes everything tiny...*

eyestrain's picture

Last year I went

Last year I went maskless.

It was painful. I learned a lot. I don't think i'll put others through that again soon. It's unfair to expect the world to conform to what I'd hoped it would be. It's not anyone's fault.

I don't strive to be the best, but instead I strive to do my best, and always give it my all every time.
-faunet
shaku's picture

Ugh, that's heartbreaking D:

Ugh, that's heartbreaking D: It sounds like there's a story there. If you ever find a solution to this, let me know. I think we need masks sometimes, but if your mask is hindering you, try letting it down a bit? If you do find that you click with someone, that person might be confused by your mask, since they're probably operating off a deeper connection.

...And to everyone who grows fond of your mask, they'll be surprised by the real you. Hm. So I guess it's... do you want someone to love your mask, or do you want someone to love you? Would you rather have a large amount of affection, even if the people don't know you, or would you rather have a much narrower stream of genuine affection?

As far as I know, there isn't any right answer @__@ It sounds like your struggle was brought on by something, though... I really hope it works out for you D:

eyestrain's picture

hahaha it is the conundrum.

hahaha it is the conundrum. There are words for the inner self (honne) and the outer face (tatemae) in Japanese. A universal idea, maybe.

I am mostly waxing sentimental. Late at night I get stuck in these thoughts.

I don't strive to be the best, but instead I strive to do my best, and always give it my all every time.
-faunet
shaku's picture

I wonder if more languages

I wonder if more languages don't have words for it. I'm surprised English has to use a metaphor, the mask, to describe it @__@ Interesting. In my History of English class, we were discussing how people don't really have a good grasp of things until we create a word for it. Perhaps, if we could name it properly, we could gain better understanding. I don't feel like the Id, Ego, and Superego quite covers it.

I shouldn't be surprised that there are words in Japanese to describe the inner and outer selves. Stereotypically, the Japanese people seem to be amazing at projecting false selves in order to do well in business and get along in such a crowded society.

There's another point. The original creation of the mask was to achieve the appearance of normalcy so that we wouldn't be outcast from the group. ...It was dangerous, right? But now, there are so many different kinds of people and so many ways of accessing these people, the mask isn't really necessary anymore... Except, I guess, it is. Survival still depends on achieving normalcy, otherwise, you can't keep a job or....


...Wow, ramble. THIS IS INTERESTING sorry. I'll stop now @__@ Late. I'll use that excuse, too.

Nayu's picture

Ah, my english fails so much

Ah, my english fails so much at the moment, I wish I could find the right words to encourage you.

Hm, if this can be of any help, when I willingly put efforts into trying to understand the person I interact with, and and bend my own perspective in order to connect better with them, I guess because I am able to get to know what they will be more receptive to, by adapting my own way to communicate with them I end up being more easily understood too.

In the end, what we understand of each other are just tiny fragments, but, gahh, It would be incredibly boring if there wasn't efforts to make anyway. c:

Not everyone is ready to go out of their way to understand another, but you have this quality. Though it is a bit unfair if you are always the one that seems to be reaching out for others, you might find poeple ready to do the same along the way?

I have to agree with shaku on language, I read some work by Bergson a LOOOOONG time ago on the subject, maybe I can find something about it on the net.

Agh! I just want to run over to you and have some gorey fists fight with everything that is giving you pain. Dx

Siggy by Butterbrot <3
Nayu's picture

Pillaroid! I couldn't



Pillaroid!

I couldn't possibly resist doing this...You're the smaller one, since you're younger.

PLollllllllllll *flees*

Siggy by Butterbrot <3
eyestrain's picture

Nayu... You are a beam of

Nayu... You are a beam of sunlight Smiling

I don't strive to be the best, but instead I strive to do my best, and always give it my all every time.
-faunet
Nayu's picture

;_;

;_; <3

Siggy by Butterbrot <3
Unplugged's picture

If I would just push the

If I would just push the brakes without having to force myself to. If I would do that I would get much more done, and I would just do and see and learn. But I don't until I reach a dead end, then turn around and go back to find a missed chance. And in the end I'm just back to the same point, didn't do anything didn't see anything didn't learn anything but a little bit heavier now.
If I could push the brakes I could occupy myself with the simple things because I'd feel like they were important enough and worth the time, and I could allow myself to not think about anything else. But I keep piling things up in the back of my head and don't allow myself anything else (you should be doing x, you cannot do y until you do x) until they crash down on me.
eyestrain's picture

It sounds like you are busy.

It sounds like you are busy. When I am busy and overwhelmed, I don't see each object of time as its own spectacular event. I see deadlines approaching and consequences looming on the horizon. Time is always being eaten up and there is no pause.

Maybe where I am right now, I'm free from that sense of tightness and anticipation. But I'm not sure if it's good or bad. I wake, I eat, I sleep, I move around and interact with people, I make things, I read, I dream. All of this feels good. But I know if I were more driven, I could be doing a lot more, or maybe growing faster, or... I don't know. I can only measure the speed of my own existence by that of others. And although I'm doing more than some, I'm doing much less than others.

I guess the conclusive thought is that I am content now with my speed. Though it being faster would help me reach my goals sooner (for who I want to be and what I want to accomplish), I am finding a great deal of pleasure in taking my time right now.

I have this luxury because I have learned how to set things down, to walk away, and to let go of things I thought were important before (but have since found less pressing). A lot of this is letting go of the 'take every opportunity' mindset. We are mortal and have limited time, and every day is a great present, but why make oneself sick trying to accomplish everything all at once? For this exact moment, I can't find a reason for it.

It is a hedonistic, "wasteful" mindset. But it suits me for now.

I don't strive to be the best, but instead I strive to do my best, and always give it my all every time.
-faunet

Tracking~

Tracking~

I hope you feel better

I hope you feel better though...:/ <3
ocean's picture

Thank you for the romping

Thank you for the romping today.
Feel better, Eye. We're always here.
GlobalBeauty's picture

*snuggle* You can do this.

*snuggle* You can do this.
Siggies by Carry & Amazengalo
Reyy's picture

Feel better, eyestrain. It's

Feel better, eyestrain. It's such a shame you're under the weather. :/
eyestrain's picture

Despite my inactivity, that

Despite my inactivity, that you still think of me is an honor... Thank you.

I don't strive to be the best, but instead I strive to do my best, and always give it my all every time.
-faunet

I feel similarly about the

I feel similarly about the role play, too
Which is why I decide not to use the forum much, in the beginning. Words arent meant for the forest..
But drama and conflict naturally lures you and traps you in at the first millimeter of give in to it... though I dont like to see so many traumatize/emo/sauron-types, I am still curious.

For othere I turn my experience into a tiny story to put on the forum,
but really in the forest.. its just me, wanting to nap or play beside another person. Travel and beautiful scenery is good but its far better if someone is beside you enjoying it
eyestrain's picture

RaQu... please continue to

RaQu... please continue to enjoy your time in the forest Smiling
Thank you for sharing your images and tiny stories, I like them very much.

I don't strive to be the best, but instead I strive to do my best, and always give it my all every time.
-faunet
Unplugged's picture

Hrmmm right now I feel very

Hrmmm right now I feel very lukewarm towards things so I'm not sure whether I can converse well. I don't think I'll be getting any actual points across.
((some call it balanced or down to earth, I call it lukewarm))

I have often felt very angry with the forest. Or disappointed. I often feel agitated when deer refuse to 'go ooc' when it's clearly a situation that calls for it. I get irritated dealing with IC rejection sometimes.
I've been sensing for a while now a very clear difference in attitudes of people who come to The Forest focusing on roleplaying from very early on, and people who come to The Forest for the forest's sake. It is very much like two different worlds, and the bridge is not always easy to cross. At very strong waves I believed they did "not understand the forest", or that they "miss the point of the forest". I have also felt contempt for when I found I was being pushed aside for IC interaction.
Especially when that happens, that really hurts my ego.

But on the other side of the coin, my interactions in the forest are almost exclusively positive. I do not deal with much rejection (maybe because I am recognized as "OOC" player), neither do I deal with much conflict. I rest and play with many "character" deer. Although I have noticed a trend that these relationships are not nearly as intricate because I feel limited in my freedom, my forest experience is still a peaceful and friendly one. Though momentary, though short-lived, I still share a good time with them.

It is entirely possible to spend time with plenty of other deer and plenty of other players. The drama, the conflict, it takes place mainly on the community site. In the forest, we're all deer. Only on the community site they turn into something else. Your ideal forest may not be the real thing, but it's mainly the community site that turns the forest around this much. Yes, sometimes there's conflict between characters in the forest. But if you're nimble, it is possible to play peacefully. It may force you to wander. It may force you to not be too close to some deer. But there also are plenty of people around who come to the forest for "something else" too.

There may be people who share the same thoughts as you.

If you want to enjoy The Forest, it may be necessary to distance yourself from some of your thoughts about the people and their intentions.


((You may not share this with me, but one of many fun aspects for me is acting together with someone. Though by far not as elaborate as roleplaying. But I like messing around when in the end we both know it's just a play.))
shaku's picture

I mentioned a long time ago

I mentioned a long time ago that I wish there were two forests, and I still wish that. A roleplaying one, and an ooc, deer-as-self one. There are times that I really wish I could get away from the pain and drama, and then there are times that I find my own peace in settling into the mind of a character.

And I really don't think the two worlds are compatible. It's like trying to play yourself in an RP. If I'm on a character, I'm popped out of character in trying to behave around/not offend ooc deer. When I'm on my ooc deer, I constantly feel the abrasion/lack of peace that you mentioned.

I find myself drifting away from the forest. I empathize with your reasons, and I think it's the drama that eventually caused me to drift. I found myself wishing that I could revert back into fawn mode, mentally, so that I simply wasn't aware of the fighting. I even made fawn characters, hoping they would fix this. But I can't unsee things, even if my characters can. I wish there were an actual heaven, somewhere on the internet.

I saw your post when you said

I saw your post when you said you, no matter how original the design were of a deer, would always get slightly disappointed. I thought it was because of you thought the world doubts too much by appearance instead of personality, and hah, guessed right...

Well, that wasn't what I planned to respond to this. So.

I understand you, and I get an image inside my head of deer resting, playing and snuggling calmly together in sunshine, keeping even closer when it rains. You must be a beautiful person, only trying to focus on the positive things instead of laying traps of drama on your path. In your world, deer don't think so human and so much on things, no? Smiling It's appealing.
But some live another life here, as a person they don't usually are and can't become. Letting creativity grow, freedom. Isn't that kind of nice, too?

Okay, cut ramble. Thing I just want to make clear, I respect and understand you and your behaviour, though I don't really talk much with you, and it's a really nice thought.

And shaku, two forests would be awesome.
Iaurdagnire's picture

"Conflict is considered

"Conflict is considered prerequisite when telling a story, and so it is common to find conflict upon conflict in a story, to keep it interesting. But I desire something real, crafted in real time, more than a fabricated tale."

Interesting; my character's written story conflicts are 100% inspired by my own conflicts and thoughts about the world and my personal life. In forest, Dag has only ever been me, and I am just naturally careful and able to articulate myself in an alter-ego way. At least, that is how I've tried to sum it up. I suppose it is idyllic, to try and represent a part of yourself and shine a light on it to make it great. Dag is an exaggeration of a desperately hopeless, all-or-nothing attitude I have, and it is great therapy to be able to project that as something stronger and unshakable in a fantasy world. We all need something to believe in, and I think it's okay to use TEF as a platform to explore that.

What you've described as your paradise forest experience does exist. I felt the same when I first played the game, when I didn't know about the community site, or the fact that the other deer I interacted with were people like me with a name and a face. It was so peaceful, just to exist in this little world for a half hour and do everything or do nothing. Then do the same the next day.
But it's the knowing what gets you; once you can see others as screen names, that they can type and converse with you and visa versa, that they have their own rules for playing (characters), the illusion is broken, and sadly you can't go back no matter how hard you try. You might think simply leaving the community site, using a different pictogram/name would help achieve this. But it doesn't; you already know too much. Lol this is actually something I frequently explore with Dag's story, about how ignorance is well and truly bliss. I find it very interesting.

However from what I know about you, you seem to be able to achieve your goal of just existing how you like, without worrying about how to "speak", yet still you leave a mark whether you intend to or not.

TLDR; TEF = Matrix. B|
ocean's picture

Quote:I've been sensing for a

Quote:
I've been sensing for a while now a very clear difference in attitudes of people who come to The Forest focusing on roleplaying from very early on, and people who come to The Forest for the forest's sake.


I came here with both. I read through the forest's description and I still hold that description very dear. I see the forest as a lot of things, which is why I have so many characters. xD They're all another way for me to view the forest.

Priest was what resulted from my first character-ooc dichotomy. He combines a lot of forest mythos with a strong personality.

Now, I play an ooc and a bunch of characters, plus some that blur that line. I love both ways of seeing things. I love the forest for its own sake and for the character aspect of things. It's amazing both ways! Maybe seeing the forest in both these ways has helped me be able to incorporate aspects into my characters that accommodate oocs as well. c:

Random tip: try turning off pictograms. Even if it doesn't help, it's a very interesting experience.

I keep trying to find

I keep trying to find something to write; been reading this, and trying to think for several days on the whole matter, and Dag actually said some things I can relate to.

As far as both Lacie and Xiu are concerned, it's a bit frustrating. I've described them as characters that are 99% based off of their player. Emotions, quirks, etc. There are times where I have to tear myself away from that, however. For example, I love certain villainous characters, but when I'm in that Forest, and I know they're there? They're a threat that needs to be either avoided or promptly dealt with in order to keep going.

I love being able to simply play and sit back and relax. And yet, when interacting with a character? It's like I have to close off the circulation, close off a huge chunk of myself. God forbid I try to be funny and nuzzle-taunt, and the character takes it the wrong way and attempts to attack. Or god forbid I want to sit with someone, and I can't because their mate is a yard from them, and will immediately rip my throat out. To be honest, however, there are OOC deer that I feel I can't simply interact with effectively. I still feel like I have to close myself off, tear myself away from it, and create something that isn't entirely true.

And even if a deer that I've known for a while, have seen day in and day out, decides that, even if for the briefest of moments, that I'm worth their attention? It's incredibly taxing on me. I have an inner fight or flight response, which translates to me standing still like a rock in the Forest. I feel like I have to tread so lightly, or else there will be nothing left of me. I can't go to that character after the initial encounter; they have to keep coming to me, so that I know that I am, in fact, worth enough of their time.

I used to follow/stalk deer that caught my attention. I've since stopped that. Instead, I force myself to stay still and hope that someone will want to sit with me. I only go to deer that I know won't chase me away - or at least I hope they won't chase me away. And to be honest, there's not that many of them left to turn to. I've grown distant from pretty much everyone, and it hurts a lot. :/

The forest is ridiculously stressing, and yet I love it all the same. Uuuugh.
Unplugged's picture

(it's pretty cool reading

(it's pretty cool reading people's responses here)
eyestrain's picture

I'd forgotten about posting

I'd forgotten about posting this and wasn't really expecting so many responses. I am grateful to all of you for exposing your feelings to me about the forest and roleplay's place in it.

I hope that my somewhat negative views of roleplay do not offend those of you who enjoy it or feel it to be helpful. I recognize its value, but my thoughts about it as a way to spend ones time have changed recently. I should mention that I do enjoy many of your characters, but their appeal drastically increases when I imagine them not being involved with The Endless Forest, and being OCs in another world instead.


In real life, my roommates often roleplay with each other (they are both involved in a tabletop campaign which I also played in briefly) and I find it alienating as well. I played the game with them and several of our other good friends at the beginning, but even receiving attention, love, and concern from their characters felt awkward and unsatisfying because it wasn't directed at me. We would spend several hours together at a time, but I didn't feel like I had been with my friends; instead, we all became invisible, pushed aside.

I am at a time in my life when I just want to be with people completely, intimately and honestly, and would devote myself loyally to someone who wanted me and would reciprocate that loyalty and attention. I suppose that is why right now I am repelled by people using masks to hunt down something fundamental about their true faces, just as I am repelled by people who play games; pretending their sincere thoughts are a joke, or dismissing and hiding their true desires to protect them from others. I just want someone strong enough to be honest in my life.

Imagining a persona, developing them, and pretending to be them is one thing. And adopting the changes required to actually idealize oneself is another. Maybe roleplay is a way to window-shop certain qualities before committing to them. Maybe it's just a more realistic way to explore a fictional person and how their actions cause others to react; a literary tool and not one for self exploration.

I just want to idealize myself. I want to level up this body, this mind. I am done with surrogates for the moment, and struggling to find others are on the same path as I am so that we might go together and help each other in times of doubt or struggle. I feel so alone that I lack the will to continue sometimes.
That is why roleplay does not appeal to me right now.

I don't strive to be the best, but instead I strive to do my best, and always give it my all every time.
-faunet
Unplugged's picture

I think it was before you


I think it was before you came here, that I roleplayed here with a character. I created them with the intentions of him helping me gain more recognition (yes I know), as well as something that I percieved to be an ideal of the "fascinating mysterious stranger". (an ideal that I have discarded by now.)
I thought this character had helped me gain what I wanted. I connected with them as being a "successful" extension of myself and it made me feel good about myself. At that point I regarded them as a seperate character, but looking back I now know that they were just my thoughts projected onto a deer.

Anyway, at some point, and I'm still not sure completely why, things got out of hand and their "loner" ideal grew into something bigger as I shoved all of my bad habits and stronger emotions onto them. This character had turned into a projection of all those faces I didn't like to show. (still am defensive of.) It was influencing me deeply and each habit I had given them, and everything that happened to them, I saw as a parallel to myself and my own attitudes.

As I recognized this pattern, I let go because it simply didn't do me well. I had poured myself completely into the aspects of this character whilst repressing all of my other facets, thus not allowing me to grow.
eyestrain's picture

I recognize such a scenario.

I recognize such a scenario. The two most recent times I have roleplayed, I tried to read what was going on in the roleplay as a direct parallel or metaphor for reality. A sort of "what if" that I could learn from and then duplicate in my life if it went well, or avoid if it went badly.

Mostly what I learned is that I can't apply what I learned from those characters to myself. Because at the end of the day, I am different than those characters in fundamental ways, even if they were very much parts of myself. The difference between them and me, and the parts of myself that didn't exist in the character, change the situation. And the fact that it was the characters actions, not my own, meant that I didn't have to take responsibility for what my actions may have done to other real players.

If only for harmless play, roleplay seems fine, but when it becomes an outlet for energies that could be directed helpfully into reality, it becomes a diversion from the truth.

And underneath every story, no matter how fanciful, is someone creating that story. The truth of them is interesting to me. A story is a way to vicariously let us step into someone else's shoes. But I don't need the story of a hero or a villain. The true story of a person is more rich and compelling to me, especially if by learning that story, I become closer with that person, and my own true story is revealed to me from a new point of view. It's that connection that I think roleplay gets in the way of.

I don't strive to be the best, but instead I strive to do my best, and always give it my all every time.
-faunet
Iaurdagnire's picture

"I push others away and feel

"I push others away and feel lonely. But I am really good at making myself alone again, and so easily disappointed or disinterested with others. Why is being with others so difficult?"

I understand this feeling... I think it's simply a type of introversion, where your focus can switch at any given moment so disinterest in anything can come suddenly if only for small reasons. Making yourself alone comes easy because you're probably a bit like me in that you're protective of yourself, and don't really like it when people see too much of you. Being with people is mentally exhausting, and it's okay to want a break and be alone for however long you want. There's nothing wrong with that at all.
onyxsoulclaw's picture

I get easliy confused with

I get easliy confused with emotions andnstuff so let me put this simplyish:

Emotions change as you age you will question yourself through life. Never dout your appilities. If you want Yoy time have it people should understand that.... Oh and most importainly.






Your an amazing indervidual no matter what anyone says or how you feel inside. You are strong when you need to be wise when called for and are bursting with personality. and I recon U rock!.
eyestrain's picture

Thank you so much,

Thank you so much, Inaurdagnire, Onyx... I wasn't really expecting that kind of encouragement in response. I trust and respect your wisdom, even if it contradicts my self-critical thoughts.

I feel like I'm just doing badly and making a lot of mistakes when it comes to relationships. Even this community is an example of how I can have everything and for some reason run away from it. Lately I've run from so much and pushed so many people away that I find myself alone. It's hard to even remember how to meet new people, and when I do, I immediately feel as if building and maintaining a relationship with them is a great deal of work. I know part of it at least is the depression. I guess I'm just wondering why I shy away from finishing projects, beating games, etc. And socially, I have always done this- found a place for myself among others and then left it without any real reason. It feels wasteful, and I am ashamed.

I don't strive to be the best, but instead I strive to do my best, and always give it my all every time.
-faunet

Miss you.. hope you are ok,

Miss you..

hope you are ok, wherever you are.